My evening with Commodore USA, LLC

[Digiman]

Is it not fair to say the only unique thing is the C64 keyboard?

The rest is no different to previous years with C= netbooks and MP3 players by the C= IP owners. Emulation on custom cased x86 PCs

(you stated he wanted something unique)

[Digiman]

Thanks Red.
The c64 machine looks great and has marketability. I'm interested.

The Amiga line, not so much... There's just nothing Amiga about it.
If they have the ability to make a computer look so much like the original c64, I'm wonder why they didn't go that route with the Amiga branded ones.

I have two A2000s which are dead as a dodo. But I can purchase an old Athlon motherboard with PS/2 keyboard socket, directly connect my A2000 keyboards with a 5pin DIN adaptor and then stick it all back together to use Amiga keyboard inside A2000 casing but run AROS on a 64bit PC system

The C64 was a bit more tricky requiring mini ITX, Keyrah etc etc. Here's a question though, will they be building in a 9pin D-connector adaptor on there so you could play a two player game with a couple of REAL competition pro joysticks not that USB retarded competition pro?

Little things like that would go a long way.

[Digiman]

Nice, I am impressed. This guy knows a thing or two about starting companies. This is what we have needed for 15yrs, someone interested, with money, and business sense.

(obviously) can't please everyone though.

Well I don't need a Commodore PC, if I did I would have bought one between 1985-1994 instead of my various Amigas

Yes we need someone with business sense, and someone with money I agree. We just need someone to build an actual Amiga of some sort (ie runs MOS/OS4) not a custom PC with pre-installed VICE/UAE emulator :roflmao:

As for undermining x1000....are people really that dumb to think C= USA products will run MOS/OS4?

[Digiman]

Well lets say he is successful with this thing and is sincere about buying the IP. AI etc. are pretty much useless, less than useless really they have gotten in the way of others actually developing stuff for the Amiga.

Actual leadership and direction for the Amiga brand

Only Nintendo/Sony/Microsoft have the kind of R&D funds to make a true Amiga 1000 successor to be honest.

May not even be viable with their R&D too :afro:

[Digiman]

What you consider to be a true Amiga 1000 successor? or me, or Barry, or Franko? We all have different ideas about what a "true successor" is.

I think that is ok, I respect MOS and others, I would never buy one of them, but its fine if others do.

I said A1000 successor not Amiga successor on purpose. The A1000 was superior and cheaper to every Mac and PC even remotely as powerful in 1985. Like I said that may not even be feasible ie to have impossible abilities at half the price of your competitors machines.

Amiga 2000 was so/so as the Archimedes was out, and A4000 was lagging behind top end PC tech within months due to relentless Intel release schedule in the 90s.

I think what everyone wanted this century was just a value for money in price AND performance MOS/OS4 compatible box. Didn't happen so here we are all still passing over on SAM 460 and X1000.

[Digiman]

Not yet interested in the "amiga" stuff. If they end up with a nice amiga like UI for linux, Id have interest, and I'd at least consider a PC in a replica A1200 or A500 case.

It wont be an amiga, but itd be fun to own.

Fair enough and I would spend about 100 bucks on such a replica Amiga case, the price of the most stylish PC cases out there now. I would need some sort of hardware to interface with real Amigas I own though like Amiga FDD compatible disk controller card and FDD drive or a CF adaptor kit and software to use with A600/1200s etc as an optional extra too.

I'd want an A3000 or 1000 case plastics alone myself but nothing else except the hardware mentioned above, can get my own dirt cheap PC hardware and install OS and UAE myself thanks.

Here's a thought, how about an Amiga 3000 style case to fit an A1200 motherboard inside to recreate the A1400/A1400CD prototypes. Now something like that for £150 inc external keyboard rehousing kit too marketed honestly would get him a bit of respect. Team up with Jens and get some REALLY cheap 030 cards made in bulk by investing in massive initial production run himself [ie B. Altman investing] up front.

Not really interested in the C64x unless I can use real 9pin joysticks (so another £30 for Stelladaptor at best) the rest is not for me really interesting as it is. I'd rather have seen them licence the FPGA based C64 DTV and put it inside that case and bundle it with a uIEC or something. At least the C64 DTV has something new (256 colour screen mode like C65 prototype).

I suspect at best he will get orders for just the cases, the C64 keyboard is radically different. Do I really care though if my PC has 12 function keys not 10 when I use WinUAE? Nope. So much smaller market there for sure unless you make out it is the second coming of Commodore actual's Amiga from the 90s (which it is not despite woolly marketing).

[Digiman]

@ Those arguing it's not an Amiga

Two cavemen sitting in a cave, one next to a fire, keeping warm, while the other sits in the distance complaining that THIS fire didn't come from the lightning bolt that created the First Fire.

Does it really matter where it came from as long as it keeps you warm?


@ Those arguing C=USA's ethics:

Like or not, they were granted the legal right. What's more important? That they have the right to wield the flame? Or whether or not they use thier flame to build or destroy?

Excuse me but a Windows compatible stock x86 motherboard running x86 PC Linux and an Amiga emulator that can only emulate AGA and 680x0 at best is NOT a new Amiga. It is a virtual recreation of a 1992 released model of a real Amiga.

IF they hadn't marketed their machines as actual successors to real Amigas from the 90s they wouldn't be getting so much flack, and deserved it is too. Workbench 5 my ass.

Truth is, this 'new Amiga' is actually inferior to a PPC upgrade G4 based A4000D with Toccata 16 bit sound card. Can you play Wipeout 2097 like a real 1992 A4000D with a 1994/5 PPC card and BlizzardVision? Nope! So it is not an Amiga (it is a custom PC case which runs Windows/x86 Linux and not OS4/MOS/WB 3.1) and even then as proved above it can never even rival the best of what 1990s real Amigas had to offer.  

That is why there is so much flack for C= USA. And there is no positive argument for them in this area. Unless they start marketing their creations they intend to produce as nothing more than novelty Amiga lookalike PCs to run WinUAE/UAE on they deserve all the flack they get.

If they want to be taken seriously the least they could do is hire the guy trying to port AROS to PS3 with drivers for the hypervisor and then pick up the phone and negotiate a price for PS3 slim motherboards and stick those in their new cases. Or NatAmi come to that. Anything else is just a PC in disguise with a massive markup for what is just a novelty keyboard and novelty case that has bugger all to do with Amiga actual from 80s/90s technically

[Digiman]

Maybe they should invent a time machine? Or Warp drive? because that's as realistic as your proposal(PS3 boards or Natami).

Putting NatAmi inside a PC case which looks like an A3000? :roflmao: if that is unrealistic then there is no hope C= USA will produce anything other than some bullshit low-end PC x86 motherboard in a Amiga lookalike case and stick on crappy Linux and UAE that can't even play PPC 266mhz games for Amiga

Did you speak to Sony? Do you know for a fact they would never ever let you purchase their motherboard to expand their market share at a price of their choosing? No. Which is the same really for all pro C=USA trolls in here...they know nothing and yet they think they know everything

[Digiman]

@ Darrin:

As I pointed out to CommodoreJohn, my original analogy was refering to those arguing that AROS/MorphOS/OS4 wasn't Amiga.

Regardless, yours was a strawman and this from a person who is effectively on the same side as you.



You're switching your analogies again. I think "You're honor, the accuse 'seems' to have killed me!" has even less a chance in court. (I can play this game too. )

This is why some people have argued with you to give them a chance. (This, once again, coming from someone who is effectively on the same side as you. I don't like what they're doing either, but as this is early on plans may change. Only time will tell.)


@ Digiman:

Looks like this mistake is gonna keep coming back to haunt me. Once again: I was referring to those arguing about AROS vs. MorphOS vs. OS4.0. I genuinely DON'T care who is the keeper of the flame, only whether or not we too can have access to it.

Other than that, I only disagree with this point:

There is a positive argument for them here: if it doesn't carry the Amiga legacy, then don't call it "Amiga." Hence my continued points about "New Coke."

I wouldn't have a problem with AROS or Anubis, or even MorphOS or OS4 on these machines. Otherwise, don't call it "Amiga."

Sorry my mistake

[Digiman]

I'll repeat my offer btw. I'll put an "amiga" sticker on my PC, and you guys can buy it for 500 dollars, E-UAE included. Or I'll trade you for an A4000 ;0

People who own A4000s aren't silly enough to fall for this C=USA stuff

[Digiman]

Sure... let's amigafy the crap of them and make it even less suitable for mainstream
In the process, we should also create 3 similar OSes, spread FUD between  them, and choose a CPU architecture that is very expensive and has very  little future on the desktop market. Then, to make things interesting,  we shall announce a MAP... which will be a even more expensive computer  running the same OS and EOL CPU and missing the same features. And it will be GREAT!

Count me in for that

Well why would anyone choose to transcode for x86 from scratch?

1. We have AROS on a slow road to getting there.
2. We have Coldfire CPUs which you can completely rewrite kickstart and workbench to only use legal Coldfire M/L instructions.

Coldfire will be here for a decade, probably longer than AMD looking at their profit/loss records this century. And AROS is well on it's way if you have to have x86

PC Linux running on a PC Windows motherboard will NEVER be Amiga. Is it really that difficult to grasp? Are their really people who are so mentally challenged that they can even attempt to argue it is? :roflmao:

[Digiman]

That's not the point... would a NATAMI in a Amiga case sell? That's the point?
Sure, you could sell a few hundreds FPGAs... do not think it would justify the investment.

Why would Sony let any other company sell PS3 rebranded? That's crazy... especially considering what they are doing to those guys that broke the "encryption"

Gotcha!

That is the ENTIRE point, NatAMI is Amiga++ with SuperAGA chipset. A PC motherboard is a PC motherboard and that's that. If you uninstall UAE on this C=USA 'Amiga' and double click on some executable files transferred from Deluxe Paint program disk? Bugger all mate because it's a PC.

As for Sony hammering down hard on people who hacked their security codes vs A company asking Sony to officially licence their technology for use in a computer model (and hence have a legal OS Blu-Ray disc supplied for use with their technology) is not even in the same ball park. Methinks you never had any experience of business

As for what sells? If I stick a C= sticker on some rubber dog shit and it sells millions as a novelty icon (mascot for C= USA Amiga 1000? :roflmao: ) does that mean it is a real C= computer? Didn't think so

I love this thread, it is the thread that keeps on giving [user IDs of lunatic blinkered C=USA fanatics]

[Digiman]

nono, its marketed exclusively through Commodore Amiga Iran.

Can I purchase a licence to distribute them through Commodore China too then? Might as well cut out the middleman and go straight to the source of these rubbish motherboards :roflmao:

Ooooh and Commodore China Computer Products = CCCP initials haha awesome logo in the making indeed

[Digiman]

My point being with Apple they changed the OS to Unix and IIRC they emulate the PowerPC for backwards compatibility. AFAICS that situation is not too different. We could use a custom Ubuntu + UAE file type integration to fire up an integrated emulator that shares the same disks.



Why wouldn't it run Amiga apps? You could even throw in a Catweasel device or an Amiga floppy as an optional extra when you buy the hardware? Apple added their propriety UI on top of Darwin, for the most part the inners are raw Unix and the pretty Aqua UI is what the Apple guys define as owning an Apple now. The same could be said for Ubuntu + dedicated propriety Amiga OS window manager (which is probably do-able in around 6 months for a small team of well versed developers). A good window manager can do a lot of magical Amiga only things, it's not necessarily a theme. Having said that I'd want to work on one myself now

You are describing OS4/MOS/AROS not any kind of x86 Linux + UAE that's ever been built/distributed let alone coded by C=USA. And they only use emuation for OCS/ECS/AGA functions so not even close anyway. They can run professional apps for RTG screens WITH NO EMULATION. Hence they're known as next gen Amigas.

[Digiman]

A branded linux computer would be interesting, calling it an Amiga would probably get a few sales from people who have an attachment to the name. Similar to how the AmigaOS4 machines did. They only had a tenuous link to the old days & all they have ended up with is expensive hardware and a much more limited OS (because they are limiting themselves to how commodore might have done it).

OS4 runs PPC Wipeout 2097 in ascalable proportional window on the desktop, Linux + UAE / WIN7 + UAE doesn't. Says it all really that even Win7/Vista/XP can't do that with x86 PC version of Wipeout.

OS4 is fine, hardware sold to run it is not.