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Offline DigimanTopic starter

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Am I the only one who doesn't love AGA chipset?
« on: December 26, 2010, 04:00:04 PM »
Poll is for actual results :)
 

Offline DigimanTopic starter

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Re: Am I the only one who doesn't love AGA chipset?
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2010, 05:50:44 PM »
Because I want to know if anyone who owns a CD32/A1200/4000 and can find no fault with AGA chipset upgrade ;)

For me the dual playfield kludge and single Paula chip was a let down, the rest was OK really as I was not writing games so couldn't comment on speed of blitting etc.
 

Offline DigimanTopic starter

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Re: Am I the only one who doesn't love AGA chipset?
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2010, 06:07:09 PM »
@gizmo - my only horror was that despite the upgrade we would still get no real parallax games like in arcades or consoles costing 1/3 of a stock A1200 and still not enough sound channels for most games to have music and sound effects. Superficially the rest was fine really at the time. ALL PC games were 256 colour by 1991 (look through by year on Home of the Underdogs website) so for PC users 256 colours was normal and so they got SF2 and Mortal Kombat in better quality than us even on 386 machines.

Add to that the games for consoles were programmed properly and used source graphics/sound files but Amiga games didn't you knew it was kind of doomed as a games machine like in the A500 days.

Not that it stopped me going out and buying one of the very first C= A1200s in the shops for £400 in 1992 with no freebies...just a mouse and PSU and Workbench disks :) I spent 50/50 on creative/gamesplaying tasks anyway.
 

Offline DigimanTopic starter

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Re: Am I the only one who doesn't love AGA chipset?
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2010, 06:17:05 PM »
Quote from: Karlos;601961
The question is ludicrously weighted. There aren't many (inanimate) things you can honestly say you "love 100% without exception".

AGA was cool, but there are things about it I don't like. Lack of direct support for chunky pixels in 8-bit mode and a faster blitter. Between them they would have gone a long way to improving the machines capability out of the box.


There are some people who are totally happy with the specifications of AGA. From a creative side I was split...still 8bit sound and still only 4 channels BUT HAM8 in super hi-res was awesome and animation speed was fine for low-res 256 colour etc.

Ditto with games, was fine with most things except the sound being identical (two Paula chips..hello??) and also they never addressed one of Amiga's weakest points...proper full colour parallax scrolling.

A faster blitter would have helped the parallax side, and using dual Paula chips the sound aspect. 8bit sound was fine. But outside of FPS games from 94 onwards like Doom it's not really a big issue not having chunky pixel mode.

I understand why they did it, and given my favourite Amiga game of all time is only possible on AGA I am split 50/50. There still is no better update to Asteroids, free or commercial, than Super Stardust AGA....a game which is a complete nightmare to actually get working properly on a DOS PC which still needs 100x the CPU speed to do any justice too!

btw I love my car 100%, there is nothing about my car I think is out of place or missing a feature and it is an improvement in every way from the previous model (which I am a big fan of too!) so as an analogy it does kind of work.
 

Offline DigimanTopic starter

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Re: Am I the only one who doesn't love AGA chipset?
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2010, 06:41:04 PM »
Quote from: runequester;601966
I liked the graphics, but I'd have liked a bit better sound chip.

In the end though, it wasn't so bad, as we discussed in the other thread. Yeah, a PC with VGA, a sound blaster and a fast 486 processor could outperform the miggy, but the cost was ridiculous unless you were loaded or had rich parents.

So could a 3000 dollar machine outperform a 500 dollar machine? Certainly.

The amazing thing is that it didn't always do so :)
VGA was great for games without a ton of movement (adventure games f.x.) but scrolling could be pretty wretched.


I agree it wasn't so bad, if the still-born A1400/A1800 prototype from 93 wasn't booted for the CD32 project it would have been fine even in 94. 28mhz, fast and chip ram and a CD-ROM as standard in an Amiga 3000 type case for £600 would have been snapped up. Nobody in EU for home purchases cared about Windows then so it didn't have to be less than a PC, same cost would be fine if the software companies pulled their thumb out and wrote some proper Amiga specific code.

I remember paying out £999 for a 486 25mhz PC with SVGA but no sound card in late 1992 and £100-150 of that is for a monitor on PCs remember. But this machine ran Actua Soccer,Doom, SF2 and Screamer Rally really quite nicely in 320x200 mode, and would be £300  less than an A4000/030 by late 93 or earlier. The problem was A1200 to A4000/030 was too large a gap and CD32 a waste of time so we never ever got Amiga games companies exploring these type of games and so no FPS/3D driving/3D soccer/256 colour arcade speed beatem ups.

This isn't really a problem with AGA though, it's bad strategy from Commodore related to CPU performance in cheap home machine targeted models. People wanted what was the A1400 prototype, the price and performance was right for the time. With the lack of a real choice for home users between A1200 and OTT spec'd and priced A4000/030 the Amiga games design suffered badly and so we never got much innovation in 3D games or FPS fake 3D texture mapped games like Doom because there was no mass market machine. Sad thing is the 020 @ 28mhz was cheap enough and the 80386 not a very good chip so the window of opportunity was there all the time between A1200 launch and Commodore bankruptcy. And even 486 machines were stuck on an 11mhz 16bit bus via ISA too until Pentium machines with PCI were launched.
 

Offline DigimanTopic starter

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Re: Am I the only one who doesn't love AGA chipset?
« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2010, 06:56:24 PM »
Quote from: Karlos;601970
Any application in which pixels are individually calculated would benefit, including the vast majority of multiformat video playback software.


What from 880kb floppy disks? :) 25FPS playback of 256 colour IFF anims is still possible from RAM I bet if all you are doing is blitting screens of 320x256 about the memory or changing the screen memory pointer. And with a 3.5" IDE drive probably still fine surely.

As games like Doom, Screamer Rally or Actua soccer are from the Pentium era of PCs then AGA stuck on the only mass market machine being a crippled* 14mhz 286 equivalent or the overpriced 4000/030 (outperformed by the 28mhz 020 Blizzard 1220 equiped A1200s) we were screwed anyway regardless of if you have chunky pixels or not. Doom plays fine full screen on a 486/33 with ISA graphics AKA 8 or 11mhz 16bit bus.

Amiga needed sales, sales = good games, good games of the time of A1200 launch were 256 colour true multi-layered parallax 2D games with plenty of sound channels from Sega and Nintendo. We only had the 256 colour graphics bit, so 66.666% fail then clearly. And we also had 90% pathetic programming making up our games and sometimes only 16 colours thanks to greedy software houses doing the dirty and porting to the Atari ST first and compromising the design.

*(no fast ram = 50% CPU speed potential)
 

Offline DigimanTopic starter

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Re: Am I the only one who doesn't love AGA chipset?
« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2010, 09:45:59 PM »
I purchased my 4mb 486 25mhz SVGA machine plus 1024x768 monitor for £1000 in Sept-Oct 1992 with my first grant check. There was no sound card true but playing F1GP on it was as fast as you can play it on an A4000/040 costing £2000 at the time right?

But that's just down to CPU mostly, never played F1GP on a 16mhz 286 OR an A1200 with Fast ram for a fair comparison to be honest so no idea how much chunky pixels make a difference. Also marketing suicide making the OTT 4000 with a crap 030 CPU card in it your next machine up from A1200.

As to the person asking why this thread again? I'm not really after changes/wish list/time machine. I am just curious how many people were happy with ALL aspects of the AGA upgrade over your previous Amiga (mine being an A2000 and an A1000 but A500 and A600 too).

So far it would seem, CPU speed issues aside, the actual areas people do have a problem with are.....

Identical sound to OCS
Identical blitter chip to OCS on a new 32bit bus
Identical planar arrangement of screen memory for all modes
Identical dual playfield mode (with 1 extra bit per field but same architecture)

I never really considered chunky pixel mode to be an issue for A1200 in 1992 because you were never going to get Doom games until Doom in 94 anyway, and had Commodore not tanked by April 94 then certainly Doom would still be impossible had they not released the A1400 (4x faster than A1200 as sold with 2mb chip ram) and stuck with the A1200 as we know it today.  

This is why ESCOM went bankrupt. £400 for A1200 2mb 14mhz 020 running at effectively 7mhz speeds without Fast ram in 1995/96 was something only die hard fans would buy who missed out.

Like I said in 1992 there were no texture mapped games like Doom or Actua Soccer, only 2D stuff or solid 3D polygons like F1GP. And this is pretty much down to your CPU (always a thorn in Amiga's price/performance over PC) and hence nothing chunky pixel mode would have made a huge difference to.
 

Offline DigimanTopic starter

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Re: Am I the only one who doesn't love AGA chipset?
« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2010, 10:01:29 PM »
Quote from: Franko;602011
Don't understand why anyones got to compare the Amiga or AGA to anything else, seems kinda pointless moaning about AGA and comparing it to VGA and the like. The Amiga range is what it is nothing more nothing less... :)

Having owned just about every model at one point in time I can only say they were all good in their own way and I ended up sticking with A1200s cos I liked them the best mainly thanks to AGA. I've never actually looked at a PC or MAC with whatever kind of display it uses and thought "I wish the Amiga could do that"... :)

Why can't folk just accept the miggie for what it was and still is, something that's just a wee bit different from the rest of the crowd and simply make the best of what we were given by the late great Jay Miner & Hi-Toro... :)

(ok... who's nicked me medal...again... :()


You are missing the point, Commodore ultimately tanked for two reasons...

AGA couldn't do some stuff a 1989 Megadrive, let alone a SNES, could do hence Amiga could no longer be king format for gamers. AGA was a plaster on the gaping wound that would ultimately lead to death of Commodore.

The other aspect is Commodore never gave you a fast processor. In the days of A1000 this was fine because Byte magazine rated the OCS chipset as similar to having a 50mhz 68000 computer so you didn't need much to beat a 286. But when AGA is a minor upgrade to OCS, and then people start wanting 3D games anyway never mind SNES quality sound/graphics on 2D Amiga game this lack of CPU speed AND average performing chipset hurt Amiga sales a lot.

My A1000 is the machine I will never sell, I have no problem selling anything else I own, and if I went bankrupt I would be sleeping on the streets with a boxed A1000 :roflmao:

But the point is as much of a fan as I am, I wonder if anyone else at the time it was for sale saw the 4000/030 as too expensive and AGA as just short of being enough of an upgrade. Is it just me who didn't get fleeced by all the bullshit claims and expectations in respected magazines? Even I knew that A1200 AGA flight sims would never look as good as those on 486 PCs despite the bullshit being peddled about AGA!

Badly programmed games I can do nothing about, that's something those company directors should hold their head in shame compared to the expertly programmed Japanese games on consoles using 100% of the machine's power.
 

Offline DigimanTopic starter

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Re: Am I the only one who doesn't love AGA chipset?
« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2010, 10:15:09 PM »
Quote from: Franko;602027
Why does Doom always come into the equation !!!

One of the crapiest games ever IMHO, but if your really want to see what can be done with an Amiga without RTG & this type of game then you really need look no further than Alien Breed 3D... :)


Doom is a game as perfectly suited to a 486 PC as Shadow of the Beast was to Amiga 1000 or A500. It's around the time of A1200/4000 that the tables were turned forever over Amiga/PC gaming superiority. At the time there wasn't a single Mac/PC money could buy that could do what SotB did in 1989 using off the shelf computers you could purchase.

It artificially aged Amiga instantly because if you couldn't run Doom as well on a £2000 Amiga 4000/040 as a £750 486 PC what does that say about the technology behind it?

I may not be a huge fan of Doom but it's 3D and that's all there is too it, 2D games were no longer sophisticated enough, everyone wanted more realistic games in 3D apparently

Because AGA took 8x as much messing about to colour 1 pixel on a screen as PC VGA cards AND Amiga CPUs like in the A1200 were slow you would never see a £750 Amiga in 1994 being able to play any 3D games like Doom full screen in 320x200 mode at 25-30 frames per second.

AB3D on a stock A1200 is going nowhere as far as speed of running the thing is compared to Doom on a 40mhz 386 PC which people were giving away to charity at the time thanks to how AGA worked.

The launch game Ridge Racer also did this on Playstation and shoved a rocket up the arse of PC gamers spending thousands on Pentium PCs. As did early 360 games for PC owners spending £450 just on a graphics card to play the same games as a £300 games console.
 

Offline DigimanTopic starter

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Re: Am I the only one who doesn't love AGA chipset?
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2010, 04:25:27 AM »
Quote from: kolla;602088
You give Amiga way too much credit, ESCOM did not fail due to Amiga.


I meant if this is their idea of good business strategy type comment.... :)
 

Offline DigimanTopic starter

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Re: Am I the only one who doesn't love AGA chipset?
« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2010, 04:50:53 AM »
Quote from: Franko;602029
@ Digiman

The thing is your talking about the Amiga in terms of being nothing more than a games machine. I know a lot of folk see the Amiga this way but to me it was far from being a games console and comparing it against PCs of the time make no sense to me.

The Amiga for those who could be bothered to put their minds to it at the time was the only low cost viable solution for folk who wanted to create low cost videos and GFX and some even used it professionally for it's audio. I mean how many Amiga's did the Disney Studio's kit themselves out with or the Creators of Babylon 5 for example, if PCs at that point in time were really so good then why did the aforementioned examples choose Amiga... so if your gonna compare the Amiga to other PCs don't forget to include the good points too...:)


Lightwave exists thanks to Newtek, and that is thanks to Digipaint/Digiview and A500/A1000 users like us who bought their stuff :)

But B5 was rendered using cheap but very powerful PC based render farms. CPU speed was always an issue on Amiga to compensate for cost of custom chips in the design.

I don't consider the Amiga a games only machine at all, from 1986 to today I spend a lot of time doodling in dpaint, messing about with samplers, digitising huge animation sequences to RAM (until my 9mb A2000 died that is) and making 'interesting' anim brushes. I don't do office based stuff because I do office based stuff at work all day and so not interested to learn another package. And I had used my A1000 to do such stuff not because it was cheaper but because it was better at it than PC or it was impossible on PC and I actually liked using Workbench too with it's swanky multitasking :)

Trouble is though that Amiga was judged on it's games by new comers, I bought an A1200 because I wanted to experience AGA for myself (not what reviewers thought it could do) but other people would look at a game and think "looks a bit cack compared to my SNES/Megadrive" and forget about it. We needed a game like Defender of the Crown or Marble Madness on the Amiga 1000 really. This wasn't really possible because whilst there were some good improvements to the OCS/ECS capabilities it wasn't anything amazing that would generate sales, and most games were badly programmed anyway.

And the whole "buy your upgrades off some other company and leave us alone" attitude by Commodore to A1200 really pissed me off. It was Commodore's job to sell me 28mhz or 56mhz 020 versions of A1200s at cost price and have Fast ram inside the motherboard as an option at the shop. But they make you buy a new circuitboard from a middleman just to get the full speed of my 14mhz 020 inside my A1200. 3rd party peripherals=extra profit for the middle man. Bad for us and bad for games as software houses only write 2mb 50% speed A1200 games because of it.

They should have made A1200 and A1200+ (28mhz 020 version) model from day one and BOTH should have been offered with fast ram in the box if you wanted it.

People don't like buying extras, and true high street sales would not be in places like Silica Shop they needed to be selling in High St electrical stores in Dixons with all the options there.

14 or 28mhz sir?
2mb or 4mb sir?

The memory should be fitted directly to a SIMM slot behind a panel like a laptop did at the time, and the hard drive should have been designed to be used exactly like a laptop connects to them, a slot behind a panel you just slide the hard drive into and put the lid back. This way we could get our stuff and upgrade it ourselves OR the shop can hold just the bare models and they purchase their own memory/HDDs and sell at RRP or less as they want. WIN :)
 

Offline DigimanTopic starter

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Re: Am I the only one who doesn't love AGA chipset?
« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2010, 03:33:32 PM »
Quote from: stefcep2;602155
PC users didn't seem to mind.  Amiga user OTOH....


PC User goes from 386 to Pentium PC and Lotus III or SF2 improves automatically with higher sample rate for sound/smoother scrolling/faster 3D/smoother gameplay.  Cost of upgrade is worth it for serious and gaming software.

Amiga User buys Blizzard 040 card for same £500. Lotus III is still ropey as hell compared to Lotus II game engine and SF2 is still the 5th worst conversion of the arcade in the world.

And this is if the games even work with an 040 (a big issue for OCS/ECS games actually). I wouldn't buy an 030 EVER because the 030 is a waste of time and does bugger all an 020 can't do as far as games coding is concerned and MIPS integer type CPU grunt. I had no interest in ray tracing on Amiga ever so FPU was waste of time and MMU isn't used by KS/WB, and if I did it would be on Lightwave PC on a super fast pentium x PC etc which was cheaper than PPC based A4000s anyway.

Maybe now you understand why people didn't want to blow money on hardware costing more than their A1200 purchased new which would be worth a fraction of its cost as soon as they broke the seal on the packaging. (unless you waited 20 years later and sell it on ebay today in 2010 for a small profit :) )
 

Offline DigimanTopic starter

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Re: Am I the only one who doesn't love AGA chipset?
« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2010, 03:47:09 PM »
Quote from: pwermonger;602167
Do you love everything about it without exception is kind of silly. What I dont like about it is how late it was. Should have been the chipset in the 3000/600 and my understanding reading the histories it should have been. That would have put Amiga on track for AAA in the 4000/1200. Instead Amiga sat on now anchient chipsets while the rest of the industry continued to advance.


Dave Haynie himself said AAA was too expensive for too little performance. And he was right. Why make something unique in the thousands that people like Diamond were doing better and manufacturing in the millions for cheaper like the Diamond Viper VRAM Stealth 64bit graphics cards for PCs? AAA would break hardware compatibility and needed emulation to provide OCS/ECS/AGA compatibility hence the cost.

I think you mean Amiga AA+ chipset, which only existed on paper but would give fixes for all the problems/omissions of AGA like chunky mode, faster pixel clock, even faster blitting and 16bit 4 channel sound. Also facility to read 1.76mb HD floppies.

Amiga had got to the stage that Sony got to in this console generation, they caved in and bought an off the shelf GPU from Nvidia from PC graphics card technology. Commodore would have had to do the same and just optimise it with better motherboard design compared to PCs of 1992. (Which is why the xbox 360 for $200 out guns a $1000 PC even now...clever motherboard design).

And I love EVERY ASPECT of OCS chipset in my A1000, can't fault any of it for a 1985 computer so the question is 100% valid. I loved every aspect of my C64 and also my Playstation1 :)
 

Offline DigimanTopic starter

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Re: Am I the only one who doesn't love AGA chipset?
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2010, 11:08:35 PM »
Quote from: bloodline;602648


I imagine we would have found people 30 years ago complaining that the 2D graphics (of which the Amiga was the pinnacle) were overrated and took away from the true gaming of the text adventure.


Indeed we did, people were trying to tell us all of Infocom's text adventures were better than Magnetic Scrolls' adventures :)
 

Offline DigimanTopic starter

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Re: Am I the only one who doesn't love AGA chipset?
« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2010, 11:42:16 PM »
Quote from: stefcep2;602649
AFAIK upgrading a 386 to pentium was not a simple drop in replacement of the CPU.  Indeed all the 386 PC's I'd seen-mainly HP- had the CPU soldered to the MB.  So I have doubts as to the cost of this upgrade being a cheap one as you imply.  Pentium PC's were $3000 plus at the time.  A lot of money, but PC users did pay it.
No I'm talking about the ever dropping price of PCs being a plus and a minus point. The plus point is you just sell your dodgy old 386SX 16 to some n00b and put it towards a 486-25 machine. And as my 4mb 486-25 only cost about £50 more than an A2000 68040 accelerator when you remove the price of the monitor it was actually cheaper anyway.

But people upgrading to a new faster PC could keep their old games and revisit them, A500 users buying an A1200 could play the same games at A500 speed with the same faults (like Lotus III for example) so where is the incentive to either accelerate your A2000/1500/500 or even buy a new A1200 until new cutting edge games to make your jaw drop appear? None :)



Quote from: stefcep2;602649
Lotus 3 ran fine on my Apollo 68040.  Blizzard 040's were RC units-recycled CPU's and I don't recall them being 500 pounds.  The 1260 boards were about 500 pounds .  You wouldn't buy a 68060 to run Lotus or Streetfighter to get a better frame rate.  You'd buy it to run a lot of serious apps.
The point is Lotus III ran dog slow on Amiga floppy machines (only CD32 Lotus III ran as fast as Lotus II) and was really frustrating to see. And the point there is that adding even a 68060 to your A2000 would not improve the speed of Lotus III BUT if you had a 286 and later bought a 486 your could dig out Lotus III and enjoy it with improved speed and hence playability. That was the point, you think Amiga mass market was people running serious software? I think not, it was to games players foremost.

And unlike when buying a new PC or an accelerator card for my ST the games wouldn't improve at all on Amiga except for stuff like Starglider/Flight Simulator II etc.

Quote from: stefcep2;602649
A 40/50 mhz 68030 is significantly quicker than a 68020, and AFAIR lets you use more RAM.  And the MMU did come in handy for emulation, and virtual memory (gigamem).
Doesn't matter 8mb+2mb was enough even up until Windows 95 and beyond PC era (1997-98?) for games programmers. The point was mhz for mhz the 030 was a poor choice. A 28mhz 020 cost about £100-125 less in 94/95 than a similar speed 030 board. And as 020 does nothing an 030 can't do as far as games programming goes it shows the proposed Amiga 1400 with 28mhz 020 and Fast ram and CD-ROM for £600 in 1994 was a much better buy than the overspeced and priced 4000/030 that was too damn slow for serious work and zorro+£1000 price too much for gamers to buy into.

This led to Amiga 3D games being produced based on A1200 spec (ie Nintendo Star Fox for SNES level if you are lucky!) compared to texture mapping routines on PC 3D games being experimented with.


Quote from: stefcep2;602649
OK so a faster CPU wasn't for you.
A faster CPU WAS for me and every gamer but not via brown boxes from unrecorded sales of mail order companies that Ocean et al would never see and hence never develop for. IT HAD TO BE VIA SALES OF SPECIFIC MODEL OF AMIGAs like the A1400 prototype.

It had to be in an affordable machine too and quickly, Commodore messed up badly by going for a crippled CD32 with no fast ram possible (unless you bought something that turned it into an A1200 for more than the cost of a damned CD-ROM drive for an actual A1200) instead of the A1400/A1800 prototypes. Both 28mhz 020 (so same speed as 25mhz 030 accelerators costing about 150 bucks) with fast and chip ram to maximise CPU speed and would be sold for £400 without CD and £500-600 with CD all in an Amiga 3000 style slimline case.

This never happened so we got the same old crap and games like TFX which were finished were never even released as sales of accelerator cards is not necessarily to games players and difficult to prove so games companies ignored them.


Quote from: stefcep2;602649
Amiga hardware did not depreciate anywhere near as quickly as PC hardware. The hardware always had better re-sale than a PC.  I upgraded to a Cobra 40 mhz 68030 for $299, used it for a 2 years, sold it for $250, then bought an Apollo 68040 for about $400.  Later added a CDROM, multiscan monitor.  And with each upgrade there was an immediate boost in performance and amount software that I could run.
Except unlike the 25% who were only interested in accelerating serious software I had no interest in owning an 040 based A1200 if Lotus III/Power Drift/SF2 were all going to be crap unlike our PC cousins who would see imrpovements in ALL game styles when they did upgrade.

And most people sold up around 1996ish or a year later, and my A4000/030 was worth just £175 back then so that's a load of crap too. Rare machines may be worth a lot now on ebay but that doesn't count.

Quote from: stefcep2;602649
What I do know is that the Amiga market was made up some of the biggest tight-arses I've ever met.  Buying an A1200?  Nah too expensive, rather run the old 1 meg A500 and complain why I can't run Doom.  Hard drives?  Too expensive, but I'll complain about why all the disk swapping.  Monitor?  Nah just use the TV. Workbench 3.1?  Nah 1.3 is OK.
 
The reason most people didn't buy an A1200 is because

1. Commodore didn't have a clue what they were doing and left out some pretty vital things like decent parallax/better sound/no HD floppy support/CPU crippled until you invest another £150 in a RAM board (where were the bloody SIMM slots!?).

2. The games still looked way to similar despite all the '32 bit power' hype. 3D games were barely improved unlike when we went from wireframe 3D on C64 to solid 3D on Amiga. 2D games STILL looked inferior to 1989/90 Megadrive AAA titles let alone the £150 SNES and it's superb 256 colour SF2 ports.

I did buy an A1200 but this was for my love of animation and digitiser work.

Quote from: stefcep2;602649
THERE IS NO WAY THAT YOU WOULD GET THE SAME LONGEVITY FROM A PC FOR THE SAME MONEY.  The software ( Windows, games and apps) would force you to upgrade the hardware to the tune of thousands, or you'd need to bin your PC.  This concept never caught on in the same way with Amiga users, so all we got was games that were made to run in 512k off two floppy drives.
Well it was Commodore's job to upgrade the CPU. 7mhz 68000 in A1000, 12mhz in A500 and 16mhz in A500+/A600. Without a faster CPU the thing that demanded more power from PC games was 3D games like Falcon or F15 etc.

A500/A500+/A600/A1000 owners had limited CPU accelerator options and games companies would never write games for accelerators costing more than an A500 anyway. Like I said if Commodore had upgrade the machines in an evolutionary fashion for the base model the games would have improved.

Only an idiot ran the latest version of Windows if at all, and anyway Win 95 onwards is where this is an issue and by then Commodore had been dead 2-3 years.

(ESCOM's crappy A1200 for £400 scam in 1995 was doomed to fail, it was an iffy price/performance in 1992 when launched let alone 1995!)

The point is gamers got bugger all benefit for 2D games on Amiga if they did invest in an accelerator, a thing which was only popular of base model Amiga's AFTER A1200 launch anyway. A1200 was only sold by Commodore for 18 months, so regardless of how many accelerator cards were sold games companies did not commit to a dead platform (Amiga was dead the minute Commodore filled for chapter 11 etc in the eyes of the software houses).

And as ALL the big box Amigas were overpriced and underpowered accelerator card sales for those machines were of no concern and pimple on the ass of the games buying Amiga user base.

PS You can do Doom on a standard Amiga 500, it's just the game window would be 80x50 pixels ;)
« Last Edit: December 29, 2010, 11:46:52 PM by Digiman »