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Author Topic: ACube and A-EON announce One Vision on future Amiga co-operation  (Read 23163 times)

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Offline takemehomegrandma

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When the Pegasos 2 G4 was introduced a decade ago, its introduction price for end-users was €499 EUR (~$680 USD in todays rate) including VAT (was it Luxembourg's 15% rate?). Genesi's price strategy was to set an initial high price and then lower it over time (a "skimming" price strategy). Back then I do recall that I thought it was kind of expensive for a motherboard/CPU combo, especially by the value of the money back then, but it was a small volume product for a narrow market, so high prices are to be expected, right? And when I say "high prices", I mean compared to x86 (not to PPC Mac's). It was neither designed nor manufactured in China, it was all European. After a while the price came down a bit, in *at least* 2 price drops IIRC. And when the Pegasos 2 was finally discontinued, the remaining stock was sold out at $399 USD, brand new.

At one time, some people in the Amiga community begged Genesi/bPlan (who was then completely focused on development based on ARM CPU's) to make another PPC motherboard. They thought this would be a bad idea themselves since they didn't see any business incentives for it (it would be an "impossible" product), but they finally agreed to do it provided that the community would cover the development cost.

The computer would be based on the Freescale 8610, one of the most potent and cost effective e600 CPU's at that time, and it would have the following specs:

  • Flex form factor - MPC8610@1Ghz (or faster if it is economically feasable)
  • 4x SATA 2 connectors
  • 4x USB2 ports
  • 2x Gigabit Ethernet ports
  • Sound ports (Audio Out, Mic In)
  • 1 PCI slot
  • 1 PCI-e slot 1x
  • 1 PCI-e slot 8x


This would be realized through a six (?) step bounty scheme, that in the end would add up to $60,000 (IIRC, or was it EUR, can't remember, doesn't really matter anyway). The total cost would have been about 20 A1 X1000 systems, give or take some. And since it would have been a community founded project, the entire HW would be completely open source and free for grab for anyone who wanted to make a production run, like A-cube did with the Mini Mig.

Just wanted to put things into perspective.

:)
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Offline takemehomegrandma

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Re: ACube and A-EON announce One Vision on future Amiga co-operation
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2013, 02:38:39 PM »
@Andre.Siegel

Well, I still have a hard time believing that you would have to manufacture the motherboards in China in volumes of tens of thousands per batch in order to build a PPC motherboard that *doesn't* cost €1,950 EUR (incl the UK VAT) in a Christmas Sale special price, especially so if you're only looking to break even (as has been said about Trevor's ambitions about the X1000). The new motherboard has been said to be a bit cheaper, but not a lot. I don't buy it (in double meaning). I think something is terribly wrong with this picture. Either design decisions, management, or the fees of Varisys for doing the work.

"Trevor said that it cost over US$400,000 to develop the X1000."

"A-EON Technology & Ultra Varisys sign $1.2M agreement for new PowerPC hardware."

This can only lead to the price tags we have seen from them, especially if only a few hundreds of OS4 users are supposed to pay the bill. Maybe Trevor should have asked around some more before settling with Varisys, asked for quotations from more than one design company? That's a management thing. And maybe the design should have been a bit simpler? Did anyone even ask for a "Xorro"/"Xena" in the first place? And after having done the $3,000 X1000 systems with this crazy design from Varisys, why do it all over again for a new computer?

I mean, *this* is totally crazy:

http://store.apple.com/us/buy-mac/mac-pro

It's a whopping $2,999!!!

But that's a completely unique custom design with...

3.7GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon E5 processor
12GB 1866MHz DDR3 ECC memory
Dual AMD FirePro D300 with 2GB GDDR5 VRAM each
256GB PCIe-based flash storage

...and it *includes* the Apple brand tax!

Again, something is severely wrong with the "AmigaOne" picture...
MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)
 

Offline takemehomegrandma

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Re: ACube and A-EON announce One Vision on future Amiga co-operation
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2013, 01:03:41 AM »
Quote from: Andre.Siegel;754643
The cost for the PA6T is said to have floated between 600 USD and 1000 USD. If someone would have told them in advance how volatile the pricing would be


AFAIK, the PA6T was never truly on the open market before the Apple takeover, at least not at the time of X1000, hence there was no real market functions (supply/demand) for setting the price, right? Apple bought and effectively closed PA-Semi in April 2008. The first "Nemo" motherboard prototype was built mid-2009. By August 2011 the first production run of revision 2.1 for "the AmigaOne X1000 beta test team" was made, more than three years after the CPU's fate was sealed.

   "If someone would have told them in advance how volatile the pricing would be, I am certain that A-Eon would have picked a different processor"

:confused:

IIRC Varisys had a rather limited stack of CPU's from the 2007 shipment, the price they asked for them was IMHO very high (considering what the CPU offered in terms of performance and obvious longevity), and it was probably the only source (which I suppose is a kind of "market function" after all, it's called "monopoly"). At some point (or more than one) it seems Varisys simply decided to raise the price, probably as the limited stock decreased (since it would never, ever increase again). A-eon paid more money for a *PA6T CPU alone*, than an end user would pay for an entire Pegasos 2 motherboard including 7447 G4 CPU at its introduction price in *2004* (including VAT), and this was the *cheapest* price they got. *Then* it almost *doubled*.

I mean...

:crazy:

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I am certain that A-Eon would have picked a different processor


I am actually kind of certain that the CPU choice was more of a "hype" thing (the new "Amiga" should have the most talked-about PPC CPU of the time), as well as the "Xorro"/"Xena" was a "hype" thing (Amiga Classic -> "Zorro", AmigaOne -> "Xorro"). It's just a feeling I have. Maybe because I simply can't identify any other logical reasons whatsoever.

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Trevor himself stated that the engineering costs were about 200.000 USD, so around half of the amount you referenced. Considering the complexity of the mainboard and in comparison to the proposed MPC8610 mainboard to be designed by bplan, this number does not appear to be out of the ordinary at all.


OK, if that's true I stand corrected about the engineering costs, but it's still all "wrong", I mean, you can't spend $200,000 on engineering alone for a motherboard that can only sell in a hundred or so units (there was always an upper limit on available CPU's, even if they would reach out beyond the OS4 community)! And *then* another $600-$,1000 for the CPU alone. And *then* everything else on top of that! The thought is absurd, and it's certainly nothing to applaud IMHO, someone should have hit the emergency breaks at the first price quote from Varisys, long before the development even started! And the complexity is hardly anything positive here either, why is a complex design with features that nobody asked for or even can figure out a purpose for better than a simpler but cheaper design like the 8610 concept? Especially when the latter will probably outperform or at least about break even with the former, and cost *a lot* less?


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I would like to emphasize that the 1.2M figure refers to manufacturing / production as well.


OK, since you emphasized that, how big is that production run? A hundred units? Two hundreds? Three hundred? More?

Or perhaps just the mentioned handful of prototype boards/SW development boards?

:confused:

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If you take the 100.000 USD quote from bplan and assume you can sell 200 mainboards, each board would have to cost an additional 500 USD just to cover the engineering fees


But had bPlan developed the motherboard "in-house" for "themselves" (read: their own business), they would probably have "priced" the development costs differently, right? Then the *monetary costs* wouldn't have been $100.000 USD any more, it would be more a matter of unpaid work hours and materials. Like Jens Schönfeld probably also does, or Fab when developing Odyssey. Had Fab put a market price tag on all the work hours of his time (mostly evenings and weekends probably, making them even more "expensive") he spent on Odyssey based on the hourly salary of a senior western SW developer, it would hardly be open sourced at just a mere €7,500 EUR. And MorphOS would cost a lot more than the current €50-€111 EUR for the same reason. I have built my own house "myself". Granted, I paid some carpenters, electricians, plummer's, etc to do some (quite a lot) of the work, but I did a very much of the work myself. I did never put a price on my own "development", I invested my own time into the project. Had I paid craftsmen to do every single thing, it would have been a lot more expensive, and even if I could have afforded it myself, the price I would have to ask at a sale in order to not make a loss when/if I sell it would probably have been *way out* of consumer's reach in my area, hence the house would have ended up unsalable. But if I'd sell my house at the current going prices in the area, I would probably make a nice little "profit", since I didn't price my own work/time, or priced it very low, compared to a "commercial carpenter". Whatever I get between what I paid for the fixed costs of having craftsmen doing some of the work, and the final end-user price the new house owner pays me, will be my "profit", the cost of labor isn't there, it was never priced. Or rather, it would have become priced by that "profit", *that's* what my labor turned out to be worth. I actually think most small/independent HW/SW entrepreneurs reason a bit the same way, and are happy with that...?

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I assume the management made a deliberate decision to not directly compete with ACube.


Ah, a "price ring" cartel, you mean?

;)
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Offline takemehomegrandma

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Re: ACube and A-EON announce One Vision on future Amiga co-operation
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2013, 10:51:39 AM »
Quote from: Iggy;754686
PA Semi announced after the Apple buyout that it would only take orders from established customers. And that at a later date a final order date would be announced.


Yeah, that's really a good sign of a solid and trustworthy longevity...

:insane: :crazy:

Quote
they paid more for these than the original units (as no more were being manufacturer the price went up).


Well, that's what happens when there isn't a properly functioning market in place. And this was *no* surprize, everyone (well, many of us at least, go back in time in the forum archives and look yourself) knew this would happen and warned about it (or "trolled" about it, depending on who you ask I guess).

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The PA6T was Hyperion's preference. And, at the time, it was the best choice.


It was an obvious stillborn. It was dead, Jim! Old G4 Macs beats it in single core performance (which is the only thing that counts in an Amiga context) and the *cheapest* initial price was $600. And it was the best choice?

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Um, just how much do you think it takes to keep a handful of engineers gainfully employed?
And, have you ever worked for a firm that built custom motherboards (because I did).
These figures are actually rather low.
Stated simply, you appear to have no concept how a business works, how costs are accounted for and handled, or the factors related to pricing a product.
And I assure you that you don't need the 16 credits of Economics I had to understand it (some people understand economics intuitively).
All costs have to be paid for.


Wow, I completely failed to get through to you above, didn't I? OK, I'll try again. My whole point above was that it simply isn't possible to think that way in a context of really heavy R&D efforts when there isn't even a market in place to actually carry the costs. And you certainly shouldn't need your 16 credits of Economics to understand that.

If the MorphOS team had properly priced all their work hours from 1999 up until v3.4 according to a proper salary of the senior level, western SW developers they are, and put that cost on the 2000+ MorphOS licenses that has been sold in grand total, what do you think the price of one MorphOS license key would have been? Certainly *not* 50-111 EUR at least, I can assure you that.

And had Fab priced all his work he put into Oddysey in a similar, proper manner, what do you think the price for selling the sources would have been? Certainly not 7500 EUR at least, that's a ridiculous sum if you think that way.

And had bPlan completely outsourced all their Pegasos 2 development to some external company with a work force to provide for, a lot of other over-head costs to cover, and a profit goal on top of that, instead of doing it *themselves*, do you think it would have been possible to introduce the Peg2 at ~$680 incl 15% VAT ("agressively priced" or not)? I'd dare to say: no way!

And had Jens Schönfeld turned to Varisys or whoever and said: "I have this idea of a custom Amiga/C64 floppy controller card, with a PCI interface in one end, and an old Zorro interface in the other so that you could just flip it depending on the computer, or even use the third interface that is an A1200 clock port, and it should have a C64 SID chip on board, and two old C64/Amiga digital joystick connectors, and an Amiga keyboard connector as well, and it should manage 1100 floppy disk formats, can you do that for me?", after all the work requied for that poor Varisys developer who got that on his table to even research what the hell a "Zorro" is, or an "A1200 clock port" is in the first place, then the actual design work on top of that, what do you think the end user price of a single Catweasel of a batch of a few hundred would have been? $1000? $2000? $3000? Would it be worthwhile? And the same with all the other individual computer's stuff. Like the "Commodore One", the C64 gear, the accellerators, etc?

And the stuff from DCE? The Mini Mig? OS4?

It's all the same, *everything* you see around you in this community, all HW, all SW, the OS's, even the forums and other web sites, follows the same laws and principles; the only reason to why it's here, why it's even possible at all, is because everyone behind those things have done the very opposite of what A-eon did, they created the stuff themselves. They built their own houses so to say. There is no market present here, so the very second you introduce market thinking into the equation with your 16 credits of economics, then is when the whole thing collapses with a big bang. Like mixing materia with anti-materia; they can't co-exist together, and the result of mixing them may not be very pleasant. Just like the X1000.

Acube makes their own HW AFAIK. That's the way to go. If you lack that ability, you could perhaps have found other ways. Like refurbishing second hand Macs, put the HW in a new case with your own sticker on it, and offer that machine for $500 or whatever. Entrepreneurship and management. In a non-existing market. Paying $1,200,000 for a second round of anti-materia will just create another bang, another abomination that will take the platform exactly nowhere (except perhaps backwards because of people leaving when they see no hope of a future anyway). And maybe the "market" for $3,000 OS4 systems is a bit saturated now? Maybe those who actually has the possibility to pay that kind of money for something like the X1000/OS4 has already done it?

Ask "vox", maybe he is up for a second run?

;)
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Offline takemehomegrandma

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Re: ACube and A-EON announce One Vision on future Amiga co-operation
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2013, 08:36:09 PM »
Quote from: Andre.Siegel;754711
If enough people bought the product to justify the release of a newer model, perhaps it was not so absurd afterall.


Depends on the perspective and POV I suppose; if you like Trevor are satisfied with sales in the range of 200-300 units in the products entire life span, then I guess you're right. If you on the other hand expected it to be an evolution of the platform, a stepping stone towards re-establishing the "Amiga" as something more than a very tiny and constantly diminishing group of people that are counted in the hundreds in total (and split in several fractions on top of that), then I think it's very absurd. Trevor took on the role of providing a HW future for the platform, and his answer to the problem was the X1000. And it has meant nothing at all to the platforms evolution. It probably scared more people away from the platform than a complete absence of new HW would, because then there can at least be hope and dreams of a future, but when this was touted to be the next step in the platforms evolution it effectively crushed all hope of a realistic, sustainable future in many peoples minds, I'm sure of that. We are talking about a 2005 performance level computer that essentially is more expensive than Apple's latest power horse (with rather extreme specs, that also has the substantial Apple brand tax included), it was from the beginning designed on a dead-end CPU and it has specs that nobody (not even Trevor) knows the purpose of. How is this not absurd?

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Either the initial investment was completely recouped or the investors did not mind spending money on a project that they enjoy. If someone is so successful in his or her primary career that he or she could run a non-profitable computer hardware business "just for fun", who are we to tell this person to not do it?


Trevor could commission Varisys to design a red/white ball-shaped PCB with pink propellers in titan all over it and other pointless features, performance from the last decade and sell it for $5000 to boing-ball loyals (who would definitely buy it, at least a hundred or so, as long as it's "the real", drivers be damned), it's a free world. But it would be very absurd, as would it be if these things wouldn't be allowed for discussion, when it's a matter of the direction of the platform evolution. Sure, you may be of the opinion that insanely priced PPC HW with unneeded features is the way forward for the platform, and of course you can advocate that all over the Internet. But I'm of a different opinion, and I reserve the rights to express my opinions as well.

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I find your entire argumentation to be deeply inconsistent. A few posts back you accused A-Eon of being too incompetent on the management level to ask more than one design house for price quotes, and now you accuse them of not treating it like a hobby and finding people willing to slave away for nothing so they can have a product to sell...


What, people with skills doing their own product development work in-house, instead of paying other companies to do it for them, automatically equals to "hobby" or "slavery" now? This is how it's done in small firms in every industry, everywhere!

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You completely underestimate the complexities of the hardware business.


No I don't think so, i'm actually quite certain it's indeed extremely complex, but that wasn't even the point.

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If someone finds a severe bug in the X1000 board design that causes data loss, Varisys are fully liable and they are big enough that A-Eon would have a good chance of receiving funds from them. If you have somebody design something for free, then you are fully liable for any issues with the design. If your hobby hardware designer made a mistake, "free" can turn into "extremely costly".


Take an insurance policy like everyone else, if you are worried about these things...?

Other than that, from a consumer perspective, I think Genesi/bPlan (who had their HW competence in-house) managed the Articia-S catastrophe *a lot* better than Eyetech did (who didn't have any in-house HW competence, and chose to buy everything (like development and manufacturing) from external entities).

The difference was significant.

Quote
Personally, I would feel very uneasy to pay a six figure sum for a production run of a hardware design that was done by some guy on a shoestring budget. When you are selling custom computer hardware, the designing phase is absolutely crucial and should receive sufficient attention and resources. (Even very experienced engineers can run into expensive hardware problems as the Articia S fiasco showed.)


As the Articia-S thing showed, a HW development company that actually have competence in HW development, isn't perhaps all that bad? Maybe even preferable, yes?

And again, this is the only way of developing R&D heavy products for a practically non-existent micro markets. I'm not talking about hobby or slavery. But paying $1,200,000 for developing a product for a few hundred potential customers can only end one way.

---

Look, of course anyone is free to waste his money in any way he/she likes (as long as it's legal and preferrably ethical), but here we are talking about someone who (in the absence of official platform dvelopment/management) has taken on the role of managing the future evolution of the platform, at least HW wise. This concerns everyone that has any kind of emotional attachment to the platform, and everyone should be allowed to speak their views on this.
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Offline takemehomegrandma

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Re: ACube and A-EON announce One Vision on future Amiga co-operation
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2013, 08:47:45 PM »
Quote from: OlafS3;754716
What TMHG propably means it is simply crazy to build custom hardware based on PPC in 2013.


You are absolutely right.

I don't have any objections to PPC per se, it's not like I'm against it for the sake of it. But if you can't produce a realistic product based on it (affordable to regular people without the need to sell your first born child and your left kidney, *and* performance/capabilities that at least is worthy the current decade), then there is no point, and other options should be considered. IMHO of course.

:)
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Offline takemehomegrandma

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Re: ACube and A-EON announce One Vision on future Amiga co-operation
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2013, 09:27:36 AM »
Quote from: Iggy;754745
And I, for one, would buy the new machine if funds allowed.


I really think you should stop and meditate a bit over the full meaning and all the implications of what you just wrote! ;)

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And as to performance, the G5 does not have enough for you?
To me it seems like over kill.


Not really, no. And the G5 is hot, bulky and noisy, and not something I would bet on for the future. I can't see myself buying a G5 under any circumstances.

As a side note - the current ARM chips and those just around the corner, is on par or surpasses the G5 (the G4 was surpassed by the previous generations). And those are cool running, low watt chips that certainly *does not* cost $600-$1000 a piece. And then of course we have the x86, that is in entire different dimension.

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Edit - On realistic - How realistic was it when the MorphOS developers got together with this thought "Hey, let's re-create the entire operating system, but base it on PPC instructions with just in time interpretation to run 68K program. And we can add new features and support for things like OpenGL"

Sounds pretty crazy to me.
Like it?


Yes I like it. But had the MorphOS team, instead of developing it themselves, just drawn up the specs and then hired an OS developing firm (like Microsoft, Apple, QNX, Debian or whoever) and paid monthly invoices from them to support their developers, over head costs and profit margins etc, from 1999 until today, how much do you think a single copy of MorphOS would have costed (the entire cost split on 2100 users)?

*That* sounds pretty crazy to me.
Would you have liked it?

And even if every single member of the Amiga community would have reasoned just like you did above - "And I, for one, would buy the new machine if funds allowed" - do you think the MorphOS user base would have been very large? Would it have been a winning strategy for growing the platform, to attract new users and developers?

There you have some food for thought!

;)
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Offline takemehomegrandma

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Re: ACube and A-EON announce One Vision on future Amiga co-operation
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2013, 09:39:13 AM »
Quote from: Methanoid;754783
I guess we dont have mods here to keep things on topic? Interesting discussion - maybe. Related to thread title? Not really.


What, discussions about A-eon and its HW and strategies for the future of the Amiga platform would be off topic in a thread about the current HW companies strategies on future Amiga?! :lol:

OK, then you go ahead and make a couple of "on topic" posts here to put the thread back on the right track again...

:)
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Offline takemehomegrandma

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Re: ACube and A-EON announce One Vision on future Amiga co-operation
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2013, 09:59:15 AM »
Quote from: spirantho;754786
We are not the ones to tell Trevor or Acube or AEon or anyone else how to run their business, not even out of any emotional attachment to the platform.

What an absolute nonsense! "Their" business is concerning/affecting the whole platform, and with that, everyone who is interested in it. The thought that everyone should be obliged to only applaud and cheer about what they do to the platform is ridiculous. It would be like north koreans forced to parade to salute their beloved leaders in public, and then go home to their huts without heating and wondering if they should serve their children hot or cold water as dinner as a result of their beloved leaders policies.
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Offline takemehomegrandma

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Re: ACube and A-EON announce One Vision on future Amiga co-operation
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2013, 10:27:00 AM »
Quote from: spirantho;754789
How does their business affect MorphOS or 68K Amiga?


I believe the X1000 punctured the hopes some people might have had about a growing or sustainable future for the OS4 platform, with more users and more developers coming in. The X1000 communicated that there is no hope of this anymore, it was simply an impossible machine to build any kind of future on. Some people have been finding a new home in MorphOS (lots of new MorphOS users has been spotted on MorphZone and other Amiga related web sites the last year(s)) which of course is good, but a great deal silently left altogether instead, which is bad. Even if the "Amiga NG" community is kind of divided into three factions (plus a "68k retro"), I don't think it's as divided as you try to make it sound, that each faction would be isolated from the others. Most MorphOS users are Amigans since long, and care for the entire platform. And a diminishing OS4 faction will mean that the total possible consumers of cross-ported Amiga SW decreases, affecting those developers who is kind enough to care for all factions when they develop/port their SW, like Airsoftsoftwair/Hollywood, effectively meaning that it gets less and less attractive to develop for Amiga as a whole. I'm also thinking of bigger projects that would really benefit of being cross-faction within this tiny "NG" community, like web browsers, office suits, Dopus Magellan, etc. IMHO it would probably have been easier to raise the Odyssey bounty three years ago (had Odyssey been equally mature back then as it is today of course) and you could probably have raised more money as well. In three years from now, it will be even more difficult than it is today. A decreasing total size of "Amiga NG" can never be good. And this is what A-eon (together with Hyperion's no-sign-of-life development pace) does, IMHO.
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Offline takemehomegrandma

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Re: ACube and A-EON announce One Vision on future Amiga co-operation
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2013, 10:38:36 AM »
Quote from: Iggy;754797
are we attracting new users?

Well, I didn't use an Amiga when it was still supported, and I'm a relatively new user (I picked up MorphOS when PowerMac support was started).
So...YES.


You just told us how *the MorphOS strategy* attracted you as a new user, and *not* how A-eon's X1000 did it (in fact, earlier you said that the X1000 is out of your reach, which is probably true to 99% of us). The meaning of this is that MorphOS/Mac HW did it right, the X1000/OS4 did it wrong. And this is what I have been saying all along. Maybe we should collectively open our eyes, look around, and *learn* something from what we have seen during the last four years, draw some conclusions and change strategies as necessary?

:)
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Offline takemehomegrandma

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Re: ACube and A-EON announce One Vision on future Amiga co-operation
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2013, 12:41:01 PM »
Quote from: Rob;754981
In the last few years I've seen quite a few people buy OS4 systems including the X1000 who had either never owned an Amiga before, had been away from the scene for a long time or had simply been holding off for some time.  That's just the people who choose to announce.


Yeah I know there are a few people who was new to both the X1000 and OS4 when they bought one, like AmigaDave, AmigaNG, clusteruk, darkon_turas, gerograph, Haranguer, ggw, klx300r, musa, otakui, sam, Tuxxl, VingtTrois, Zenzizenzizenzic. Probably a few more, right (feel free to add the others you know about)?

And then of course we have VOX, who (according to his friend djnick) paid €3600/$4850 (which equals to 10 months full time salary in Serbia (almost a full year's worth of payment(!))) for his X1000, and to manage the purchase he put himself in debt until 2018 (which is still kind of an aggressive payment plan for 10 months of full time salary IMHO, when you still have a life to live with all those day-to-day expenses like food and rent and the usual bills), and then he got banned from Hyperion's support for asking too many questions about the X1000 driver situation, he seems to be banned from all other sites as well, but on moobunny he talks about class action lawsuits now.

And even if you manage to double the list above, we are still counting in the range of tens of people. That's virtually nothing. And it still isn't a sign of platform growth at all, you would have to count those who left as well! And you don't have to do any counting at all to understand how HW this expensive (with that performance) can't create any real platform growth whatsoever, it's just a matter of common sense.
MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)
 

Offline takemehomegrandma

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Re: ACube and A-EON announce One Vision on future Amiga co-operation
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2013, 01:42:24 PM »
Quote from: Iggy;754989
And I'll probably buy one.


Soon you would *have to* in order to save your face - put your money where your mouth is!

:lol: ;)
MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)
 

Offline takemehomegrandma

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Re: ACube and A-EON announce One Vision on future Amiga co-operation
« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2013, 05:09:22 PM »
Quote from: amigakit;754998
In reality, there are hundreds of new X1000 users, I am sure you do not think three consumer production batches constitute a few dozen boards?


Of course not, but if you pay attention and follow the discussion in this thread to which you responded, the point was what the X1000 did to *grow the platform*, meaning attracting people *from outside* the Amiga community, or at least outside the OS4 community. In this context, people already using OS4 doesn't count. And in this context, the question is also how many *left* because of the fact that the "Amiga future" was positioned way out of their reach, and they felt that there is no hope of a future (or that the risk is way too high) when the future builds on $3,000+ machines with ancient (in computer evolution terms) performance? Surely not even you can think that this *hasn't* taken its toll?

Quote from: Iggy;755007
OK, TMHGM, I WILL purchase an X2000 (or whatever it is called).
Where do I sign?


That would surely put more weight to your words in this thread. After all, first you are advocating a future for the platform based on $3,000+ machines, and then you tell us that what you *actually purchased* was a Power Mac with MorphOS that you bought for $19.95 (which was a good catch BTW, even if the previous owner thought it was broken).

I mean, either you put your money where your mouth is and chip up those $3,000 to support Your/Aeon's/Hyperion's vision, *OR* you do like the rest of us; put your mouth where your money is and hope that those in charge changes their minds and goes for a different kind of future instead.

You don't have to wait for the "X2000" (or A3000 or A5000 or whatever they will call it) in order to prove your point either, the X1000 is available and it's *on sale* now, and it features a unique CPU that surely will interest a CPU guy like you, that was "was the best choice" (your words) for a Amiga NG machine. So you can support Trevor, Hyperion and their ideas of a future *now* already, just go here and get it!

:)
MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)