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Offline takemehomegrandmaTopic starter

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MorphOS Milestone: 2000+ licenses sold
« on: September 07, 2013, 06:00:45 PM »
It has been a long time coming, but finally the amount of MorphOS registrations has passed the 2000 mark!

http://www.morphzone.info/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=5875&forum=14&start=600

Congratulations to the MorphOS team!

:D
MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)
 

Offline takemehomegrandmaTopic starter

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Re: MorphOS Milestone: 2000+ licenses sold
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2013, 06:59:31 PM »
Quote from: nicholas;747215
Wouldn't linking to the actual official announcement be better?

http://www.morphzone.info/modules/news/article_storyid_2068.html


Thanks!

:)
MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)
 

Offline takemehomegrandmaTopic starter

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Re: MorphOS Milestone: 2000+ licenses sold
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2013, 11:58:36 AM »
Quote from: klx300r;747243
Considering most MOS users I know have at least 2 or more registrations that's hopefully close to 1000 users.


That sounds reasonable IMHO. Some users of course have only one MorphOS system registered, while others may have a couple, but an average of 2 copies per user does indeed sound like a fair guesstimate.

A few years ago, most people would guess around 700 users, but a lot has been happening to both MorphOS's features and the supported HW platforms since then that without doubt has made the package more attractive. So about 1000 (more or less active) users, or perhaps "unique license owners" would be more appropriate in this context, seems indeed very realistic.

:)

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I honestly thought there'd be alot more.


Then I think your expectations about the interest in "Alternative" OS's in general and Amiga related OS's in particular in 2013 is very unrealistic, especially since it's only running on PPC machines with 2005 (tops) level performance. It's obviously only the surviving but steadily diminishing Amiga community that cares. When (if) it would get to run on modern HW like x86, then the situation may become different. Until it does, this is very good numbers IMHO.

This is a lot better than I personally dared to hope for! :)

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So much for the 'cheap hardware will bring the masses' crowd. It appears there's a lot more than cheap entry into ones decision in choosing an alternative OS.


The diversity of available HW platforms (both tiny footprint, big box and laptops) has only been good for MorphOS, the statistics clearly shows that if you look at how the graph develops during a month after support for a new platform has been introduced. In several occasions it has also made the graph steeper (an increase in the growth rate, that has then lasted). In retrospect, the decision to support second hand, mainstream PPC Mac HW was a brilliant move. The low cost, the diversity and the performance (the Mac PPC HW represents the peak of PPC, it's as far as the PPC ever went on desktops/laptops) has definitely paid off! :)

These license numbers could not have been reached without the Mac HW support. It surely made MorphOS a lot more available to Amiga enthusiasts. Which for obvious reasons are the only ones interested in MorphOS, not "the masses" as you seem to believe. It's all a zero sum game within the ever-shrinking Amiga (NG) community. And for sure these high numbers could *never* have happened if the MorphOS team had put their hope to €1,000 Sam 460 systems or $3,000+ X1000 systems.

:)
MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)
 

Offline takemehomegrandmaTopic starter

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Re: MorphOS Milestone: 2000+ licenses sold
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2013, 02:48:14 PM »
Quote from: kamelito;747255
Impossible to say since no new HW was available for Morphos so you can't compare it's just a guess :)  Kamelito


A few comments to that statement... ;)

  • Those "new" computers you must be talking about (Sam440, Sam460, X1000) is *still* of 2005 level (tops) performance, which is very "old" despite being "new".
  • The Sam440 was always *way* slower than the Pegasos 2, thus it would have been a major downgrade from what MorphOS users already had.
  • The Sam460 is also a bit slower than the Pegasos 2. Maybe not a major downgrade, but certainly not an upgrade either. At best it would serve as a replacement for dead Pegasos 2 systems, but at €1,000 EUR for a system, question is how many would actually care to do it or simply walk away altogether?
  • The X1000 performs similar (actually a little poorer) compared to a regular G4 mac laptop of later make. But the price tag is totally insane, especially considering its 2005 level performance. This makes it completely irrelevant.


Current ARM based mobile phones actually have more power than any of the above mentioned systems. That's how "new" they are. And none of them are as tight and small as the Mac Mini, as powerful as the G5 PowerMac or as mobile as the PowerBook. This diversity of the Mac platform has meant a lot for MorphOS growth rate, have a look at this picture:



What I want you to see is the angle on the various lines I have added to the well known graph. The tilt/angle represents the growth rate.

If the MorphOS team hadn't gone for Mac HW in 2009, then the growth would have followed the bottom red line. This represents Peg1/Peg2/Efika5k2. Of course it wouldn't mean that MorphOS would have reached 1000 licenses by now; more likely the growth rate would have flattened out because of market saturation (few would buy a second or third license for yet another Peg2 when they already had one) and limited/decreasing amount of available HW. So it would have landed somewhere inside that pinkish field, probably somewhere between 600-700 licenses sold. (EDIT: Why guess when we already have the answer? :lol: Peg1/Peg2/Efika5k2 together adds up to 740 licenses. Which means it was still a pretty good guess! ;)). Sam440 wouldn't add anything, Sam460 would possibly have added some, it would be a step sideways from the Peg2 but it's at least available as "new" (So 50? 100? 200?). X1000? Definitely not.

Luckily that's not the way the MorphOS team went. Instead they went the Mac HW route. And look how the tilt/angle (growth rate) increases as more and more diversity of HW options are added. The orange line is when they go Mac in the first place (Mac Mini). The yellow is the eMac/PowerMac G4. The green one is when MorphOS goes laptop on the PowerBook/iBook and G5 PowerMac.

  • Price does matter
  • Performance does matter
  • Diversity (many options) does matter
Given the obvious limitations you automatically have when being a PPC only OS, the MorphOS team has certainly made the most out of it. MorphOS currently supports 75 systems (seventy-five). MorphOS supports (almost) everything worth supporting of what PPC has to offer! That's what Mac HW strategy meant for MorphOS, instead of going for that "new HW" (cough cough) route that the "competition" went for. This is how MorphOS could reach 2000+ licenses (and counting).

:)
« Last Edit: September 08, 2013, 03:22:35 PM by takemehomegrandma »
MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)
 

Offline takemehomegrandmaTopic starter

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Re: MorphOS: Celebrating 2000 Registrations
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2013, 03:15:33 PM »
Quote from: fishy_fiz;747261
It's the price of the license, not the hardware that's stopping the numbers being higher than they are. I know more than a few people who use MOS on occasion, but are unwilling to shell out $200-ish for a license (that's a full "modern" computer price).

And before the usual suspects get their panties in a twist, this isnt a criticism (I like MOS, and its much more attractive than OS4.x to me in regards to pricing), just a simple truth (from someone who has no interest in playing favorites). In reality there's more people using MOS than the registrations suggest, its just that not all are willing, or able to afford a license.


Sure, it sucks to pay money, and anything would "sell" more at $0.

But at least the price has come down considerably; at one time a MorphOS license cost €150. Today it cost €79 (~$105) to register a Mac Mini G4, eMac, Pegasos I, Pegasos II, or PowerMac G4. These systems cover 75% of all currently licensed MorphOS systems.

The MorphOS team does have the right to charge money for their licenses, I don't think anyone denies that. There has been a lot of work put into this. AFAIK some components has also been bought/licensed. Nobody is forced to pay, you can try it for free for as long as you want (30 minutes per boot), and you only pay if you like it and want it without that 30 minutes limitation.

MorphOS is the best Amiga NG OS in existence. It has the best Amiga compatibility, the best performance, the best stability, the best features, the most and fastest HW that comes in the most options at the best prices.

You can buy a system complete with a full, registered MorphOS license for (more or less) $200. If this is your hobby, you may find it worth it. If not, buy something else instead.

But at least it isn't $2,800+ more, for less. :p ;)

:)
« Last Edit: September 08, 2013, 04:22:32 PM by takemehomegrandma »
MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)
 

Offline takemehomegrandmaTopic starter

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Re: MorphOS: Celebrating 2000 Registrations
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2013, 05:10:59 PM »
Quote from: kamelito;747276
I expected more from Morphos for a first contact. For Amigans that left years ago I would have expected a better first experience. Papiosaur pack help after but now I'm wondering if I should pay that price, for now my powerbook is just not used. Might put Linux on it.  Kamelito


I don't really know what you did expect?

Some people, especially those who has been away from Amiga for a decade or two (and I'm not talking about "the Amiga online discussion club" but "the *really using* Amiga club") simply forgot how the Amiga 3.1 floppy brought you *nothing* but a grey, empty workbench, and that you had to spend much time (a process often going on years, never really ending) to customize it into your own personal Amiga system. No Amiga system was like any other.

This can be seen as a journey, and a strength of Amiga. This is what many are talking about when they say that "Amiga gives you control over your system"; when you have set everything up the way you want, when you have arranged everything according to your own personal preferences, when you have installed and configured all the applications and tools you yourself need and want, etc, then you are indeed in control and nobody knows your system as good as you. MorphOS (like any other Amiga OS) is kind of "empty" when freshly installed and it will require some work to set it up from scratch in order to get the system "you'd expect". Many people who migrated back then simply moved their HDD's from their old Amigas into their Peg2's or whatever, installed MorphOS and continued to use everything pretty much as before.

If you however have become used to Windows or MacOS during the last decades, you may have been so accustomed to having everything pre-configured and set up in a fixed structure with no need (or no possibility) to set things up the way you once did on Amiga, and then you may find out that you would "have expected a better first experience". Then you perhaps will look at this as a weakness. Personally I don't agree though. Only Fleecy's and McEwen's "Amiga" was about "using content". ;)

Papisaur's pack indeed serves a purpose here. It will get you going very fast. But IMHO it's not as fun, and the result will basically be "Papisaur's system" (not necessarily a bad thing ;))...

It's a good thing that you can try before you buy though!

:)
« Last Edit: September 08, 2013, 05:18:47 PM by takemehomegrandma »
MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)
 

Offline takemehomegrandmaTopic starter

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Re: MorphOS: Celebrating 2000 Registrations
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2013, 05:28:54 PM »
Quote from: fishy_fiz;747281
AROS "wins" in terms of available hardware, performance, and prices. It also has some nice features thus far lacking in MOS, so "best features" is in the eye of the beholder.


While I'm sure AROS is nice and fun (especially for its developers), it's fundamentally different from both MorphOS and OS4, and obviously not really what the majority of the people who opts for either MorphOS or OS4 are looking for (had it been, then they simply would have used AROS instead).

Perhaps a bit off topic also...

;)
MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)
 

Offline takemehomegrandmaTopic starter

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Re: MorphOS: Celebrating 2000 Registrations
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2013, 06:39:06 PM »
Quote from: OlafS3;747284
Perhaps might be that they have decided for one platform and stick to it (MorphOS or AmigaOS). The most users have left all platforms over the years, the remainders have their favorite.


Maybe so, but it doesn't change the fact that there are two categories; MorphOS and OS4 in one, AROS in the other. The differences aren't cosmetic or a matter of "taste", they are fundamental, hence they can't really be compared. MorphOS could also be ported to x86, quite easily and fast I believe, if all legacy ties and backward compatibility should be dropped. If there would be no requirement to preserve binary compatibility and no requirement to run low level native on the HW, then it would be easy. But current MorphOS users didn't choose MorphOS to run their Amiga applications in UAE on some Amiga-like interface hosted on Linux or virtualized.

Please note that I'm not trying to flame AROS here in any way. I'm just pointing out that there are fundamental differences.

One day, probably when MorphOS breaks free from the PPC chains, it will probably move into the AROS realms (otherwise it would be difficult I guess). And if MorphOS would move into that category instead, even if such a release of MorphOS wouldn't be *properly* multithreaded/SMP enabled, 64-bit, memory protected, no max memory limit, etc, in other words — even if it basically would mean just the *current* MorphOS, minus the Amiga binary compatibility, then MorphOS would *still* beat AROS feature wise and bring an overall far better user experience. MorphOS is simply *way* more mature, regardless of CPU architecture, and this isn't really just an opinion.

Again, I am not trying to flame AROS, it's a great and very interesting OS that very much has deserved any recognition and appreciation it can get. And AFAIK it has played a part in MorphOS development as well, both inspirational (what to do, and what not to do), and also in actual code contributions. And I truly hope that there will be someone around to develop AROS forever. Long Live AROS! :)

Still off topic though!

;)
MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)
 

Offline takemehomegrandmaTopic starter

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Re: MorphOS: Celebrating 2000 Registrations
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2013, 12:13:42 PM »
Quote from: vox;747292
Some notes:

they show MorphOS team ability to survive in times left with no hardware company beneath.

As does most OS's, except perhaps MacOS.

As I tried to discuss above, going the Acube/Aeon route would have put MorphOS in a much worse position than what it is today. The problem isn't lack of HW, the problem is PPC and a dead architecture. But the MorphOS team surely made the most out of what was available. Soon there isn't anything more worth supporting.


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you :should have a boxed one, with manual

Completely unnecessary. Only makes it more expensive and doesn't bring any real additional value.


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and a bit preconfigured for the machine (even its seen as weakness :-)

I think you misinterpreted my above answer to kamelito — of course MorphOS is configured to run on the machines it supports!


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SAM 460 port could be first one for team to do so?

The fact that OS4 users are prone to pay sh!tloads of money for OS4 stuff (HW, OS, boxes with boing balls etc) doesn't automatically mean they are willing to pay similar amounts for an expensive cardboard box with printed manual for MorphOS. After all, it isn't "teh reel!!1!" and doesn't have a boing ball slapped on it.


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That will give presentable MOS product as such - not just Amigan geek thing.

Amiga geeks are the only ones interested in MorphOS in its current incarnation.


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Having cheaper Acube products needs only higher volumes - something MOS can contribute

Volumes are so low in Acube products anyway that a MorphOS port couldn't do a thing to improve economy of scale. To be able to lower price thanks to economy of scale, you need mass production in China and bulk purchasing of components in tens of thousands. I don't see how a MorphOS port could have that kind of result on Acube sales.


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eventually introducing some dual core high end replacement

Amiga is single core only. It can't be anything else (except through asymmetric multi processing, which isn't really that useful for general usage). If MorphOS would introduce true SMP, then Amiga compatibility has to be broken anyway, so why bother with PPC at all at that point? Why not go to a HW architecture that still has a pulse?  Besides, MorphOS already runs on dual CPU HW (single core, of course).


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that would bring SAM 460 as total OS4 low end, effectively replacing 440 (kind of what Flex did to integrated  EP niodel).

Everything "Sam" is very low end...


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Eventually it might become only cheaper, it can hardly be more expensive (for end users).

That's what I and most people thought as well a few years ago. Then came A-eon and proved everyone wrong! :lol:


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It will end blue - red war in nice fashion, OS4 port for Peg2 did.

Funny that they only released OS4 for Pegasos 2 after it had reached EOL (I know for a fact that OS4 was running on the Peg2 long before it was released), when it could no longer help sales or grow the Peg2 community. Anyway, OS4 users could only buy Pegasos 2 as second hand HW. Think about that, you "but-it's-not-new-HW" crybabies! :lol: ;)


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Enable people to use both if they want. In such regards until x86 or ARM transition is done also SAM 440 (not to hard to derive from SAM 460 port since CPU is same)

The CPU is absolutely not the same, and neither is anything else. Sam440 may be faster than an Efika5k2, but it's still only "G2" class HW thus it's not very useful. The Efika5k2 (while having some quirks, oddities and bottle necks) at least have the quite big advantage of costing only $99. MorphOS already supports that, if you are interested in that kind of low power HW. And it can still be bought as new. But few people ought to be interested in that type of HW so I can't see how it would be worth the effort.


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and even X1000 should be kept as viable targets.
Even those systems are expensive, they already have some customers (250 OS4 users) that could be added

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if a majority of those 250 OS4 users also has a MorphOS system today. Running on a cheap Mac. There are a lot more "dual users" than many seems to think. They aren't always making a lot of fuss about it though.


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and offer PCI-E, SATA and other modern standards often beyond Mac

Here we go again! :rolleyes:

SATA isn't anything magic or anything "milestone"-alike, and MorphOS already supports a SATA card for those who need one. And PCI-E is just a freakin' bus, there is no magic or "milestone" there either! The day the MorphOS team decides to support a motherboard that is using a PCI-E controller, then they will simply write support for that controller, just like they always do with all the other controllers on all the other motherboards they decides to support. No magic involved, no "technology milestones". And certainly no X1000 is needed for anything.


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and there aren`t 2005 performers.

The PA6T is the most powerful of them all, and it performs on par with (or slightly below) 2005 level G4 Mac's.
MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)
 

Offline takemehomegrandmaTopic starter

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Re: MorphOS: Celebrating 2000 Registrations
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2013, 09:19:28 PM »
Quote from: vox;747352
And that would be the reason more to go for those 250 OS4 users.
Most of them would try it and likely most of those who try would buy it if it would be avail for their SAMs/X1000


I actually think it's fair to believe that many of them is *already* using MorphOS. The number of MorphOS licenses isn't the only thing that has grown, there has been plenty of new users as well (there are many signs of that). And because it's basically a zero sum game within the already existing population, it can only mean that many OS4 users are now (also) MorphOS users. It's cheap and easy to become a MorphOS user. No need for Sam/X1000 support. It's also the only way to use a laptop or more powerful HW. Superior diversity, ultra low cost, highest performance available, best Amiga compatibility, and the development actually still going on and moving forward; you can only ignore that for so long!

;)


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True in overall, but having more 50 or 100 orders could create another volume that would cost a bit less, even in present low scale economy.


No. 50 or 100 orders can't do that.


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Well its a system on chip concenpt, never ment to be a killer.


It was never meant to be used in a desktop context, period. Not even back when it was made.


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No, but even MOS users could agree it gave a new pulse to OS4 community.


Eh no, it didn't. What it did was helping MorphOS going through the 2000 licenses barrier! :p


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As far as I do remember, G4 2Ghz was faster then PA Semi 1.8Ghz single core


Then we clearly remember differently; what I remember is that a standard 2005 Powerbook G4 1,67GHz laptop beat the X1000 with margin.

But it doesn't matter and I don't care, this is about MorphOS, and the X1000 is utterly irrelevant.

:)
MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)
 

Offline takemehomegrandmaTopic starter

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Re: MorphOS: Celebrating 2000 Registrations
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2013, 10:40:35 PM »
Quote from: klx300r;747502
sure but to be fair, let's not forget those so called 'tests' were only using one core of the X1000.


Amiga is a single core OS, so yes.

Besides, there are a few dual core/CPU machines available for MorphOS with more dual-power than the X1000.

;)
MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)
 

Offline takemehomegrandmaTopic starter

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Re: MorphOS Milestone: 2000+ licenses sold
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2013, 11:01:53 AM »
I don't really see how Bill Gates, religion, and stoning of muslims relates to MorphOS breaking the 2000 licenses barrier.

There is a topic of this thread, you know...

;)
MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)