AmigaOS 4.1 Update 4 News

[takemehomegrandma]

From: Hyperion Entertainment Blog:

Just a quick note to say the development and testing teams are working on AmigaOS 4.1 Update 4 right now.

Several issues identified in Update 3 and earlier are being addressed thanks to direct customer feedback via Hyperion's support forum. A huge thanks to all those that have taken the time to register and post your bug reports! AmigaOS can only get better with direct customer feedback so keep it coming.

Along with the usual assortment of bug fixes, there may well be a surprise or two as well.

Steven Solie
AmigaOS Development Team Lead

Posted by Steven Solie

A quick response to the catastrophic OS4.1.3 release, good news (*if* they get it right this time) for all the OS4 users that had to revert to OS4.1.2 to various degrees!

It will be interesting to see if they will require you to have OS4.1.1, OS41.1.2, OS4.1.3 installed in a row prior to installing OS4.1.4, or if they will release it as a stand-alone ISO this time. I think the latter would be beneficial in many ways...

[takemehomegrandma]

@takemehomegrandma

Catastrophic? It seems that most people had no issues with update 3, and of those who did, most were down to messiness with 3rd party libraries etc.

*Many* users had *terrible* problems (and not "minor glitches", but *fundamental* ones) with the OS4.1.3 release. It was obviously not tested enough, and the following crisis management was terribly handled (blaming users, etc). I don't think there has ever been a single release of OS4.x.y without some user groups (defined by their hardware) not having big problems (for numerous reasons; flaky hardware, flaky testing, incompatible third party SW, whatever - reasons doesn't really matter), but OS4.1.3 must hold the record as the worst ever.

But let's forget that now! I'm sure they will clean it all up in OS4.1.4! When can it be expected?

(And yes, I know there are glitches in competing solutions as well, but never remotely as severe as we have seen in OS4 during the years)

[takemehomegrandma]

Oh, and...

I agree about the ISO though - a full, clean ISO would be nice as an option for those who want to or need to do a clean install. Personally, I'd like both to be available - an upgrade so I don't have to do any messing with ISOs and reconfiguring my machine after installation, and a full ISO, just in case I ever have a need for it...

...there are *no reasons whatsoever* to why you shouldn't be able to upgrade from an ISO. Every single one of the public MorphOS releases (v1.0+) came packaged as an ISO, and it was only on one or two occasions (1.4->2.0?) that you were recommended to do a clean install instead of upgrading. The only downside (and it's really a minor one with today's Internet bandwidth standards) is that file size may be bigger with an ISO, but the upsides are so much bigger. Clean install or upgrade - it's a matter of how the installer is set up (and then how the user decides), *not* if it's an ISO or not. With a properly put together ISO you will have a choice, without it you never will.

[takemehomegrandma]

I think the fact that they have charged for ANY of the updates to AOS4 is scandalous.

Some say that MorphOS reached its de-facto "v1.0 level" somewhere around v2.0/2.1 (and this is also when the license started to cost money).

When it comes to OS4, I feel that it has yet some distance to go before it reaches its "v1.0" level...

[takemehomegrandma]

Absolutely, that should go without saying, but wasn't my point. Maybe you were so eager to disagree with me (I am an OS4 user after all) that you failed to understand what I was actually saying.

Well I read your post here, and I read your post on AW.net, and I got the picture that you really thought it was *either* an upgrade option *or* a clean install, and it all came down to the SW being packaged as an ISO or not (and it seems many other thinks so as well). Sorry I misinterpreted you. And for the record, of course I don't automatically disagree with people just because they are OS4 users.

I'd like to be able to download an upgrade package, double-click it, and it goes ahead and upgrades my installation. Not to have to mess around burning CDs or mounting virtual CD devices. Update 3 worked like this for me, and I would much prefer future upgrades to work that way too rather than being ISO-only.

Well, on MorphOS, ISO's are perfectly clickable, no hazzle! :p

IMHO there is a certain "beauty", or "cleanliness" if you like, of releasing the OS as a complete ISO that contains everything needed, hence every new release becomes like a new lowest common denominator, increasing the predictability, and making it easy to do a clean install of any version if you want to. Releasing a series of incomplete/partial patches that each builds on the previous one, isn't really "kosher" in my view. I can understand why this is done on Windows, where sizes counts in gigabytes, but on Amiga? Since the bigger size of an ISO is the only rational argument *against* ISO-style releases I can see, it obviously comes down to a matter of taste of the OS4 devs. They simply don't like ISO's. Or maybe Hyperion don't want to distribute complete releases in any other shape and form than a physical CD with a boing-ball printed on it (isn't that one of the most important parts of their product after all - the boing ball (TM)? ). I don't know. But even if you "have to" burn a CD (and given the frequency of OS4 releases - how much of an effort can this really be for a user? It's not a daily, not a monthly, heck, mostly it isn't even a *yearly* chore!), this "one time" effort must surely have a lot of benefits as soon as you decide to do a clean reinstall with the latest version, in comparison to first install the latest ISO, then one update, then another, then a third, etc.

I can see many voices in favor of an ISO on various forums, so I'm getting quite sure they will give in and finally release their OS as an ISO this time; it was many revisions ago they did this (was it OS4.1.1?). And given that OS4.1.4 will (supposedly) be the last revision in the OS4.1.x branch, I think it makes sense to "wrap it up" in a nice and clean ISO that marks the end of the "OS4.1.x era", before "OS4.2.x" enters the scene with all its groundbreaking, mythical improvements that will change the Amiga paradigm forever...

[takemehomegrandma]

there was issues with the last MOS update too.

Never have I claimed otherwise! There *are* bugs in MorphOS!

But *never* have the MorphOS Team released something of *similar poor quality* as OS4.1.3. Why do you think they are announcing a OS4.1.4 release this quick? Or rather, why do you think they are announcing it at all? OS4.1.3 was supposed to be the last one before OS4.2.0, but now they are rushing out a quick fix! Only praising Hyperion and silencing criticism of their work won't improve one thing. Enlighten the problems might. I am perfectly aware that they have a couple of years of development to reach the competitions level of features and Amiga compatibility, but if they set out to deliver products under the name "Amiga" they should at least try to live up to its standards when it comes to *quality*! OS4.1.3 was a mockery...

[takemehomegrandma]

@ the usual cry-babies

OK, before continuing this moaning about my presence in this thread, go back and read from the beginning what I have actually written:

In this thread *I have* expressed "positiveness" towards the fact that they are trying to fix the OS4.1.3 mess (which is an established fact, not some evil "takemehomegrandma propaganda", the very existence of this "news item" is proof to the pudding) with a new bugfix release. This *is* a good thing, nowhere did I say otherwise (if you feel I did, please point me to that post)!

I have also tried highlight the benefits of ISO-style releases, and trying to correct some (obviously) common misconceptions regarding possibility of having an update option in ISO's. I'm far, far from the only one preferring this, you see many OS4 fans on this site and on other sites expressing the very same opinions.

That's about it! And this has caused you (the "usual suspects") to double the thread's length with meta-comments about my evilness. Sigh.

Give me a reason to cheer, and I'll cheer, but I'll also call cr@p when I see it. The advent of an unexpected and unplanned OS4.1.4 bugfix release in between OS4.1.3 and OS4.2.0 *is* a good thing for OS4 fans, like I said in this thread. OS4.1.3 clearly wasn't, and propaganda from the "there are no bugs in the Articia S" zealots won't change that fact. Deal with it!

[takemehomegrandma]

@raddude9

You make it sound like I'm making things up, like what happened didn't *really* happen. I don't know, maybe it's down to perception, clearly you don't see the reality the way I do. We don't have to agree. If we can just leave it at that, I will try not to post further in this thread, but before I go, let me just say that one positive thing that OS4.1.3 brought, is that there now will be an OS4.1.4, and this one will contain - on top of the obvious bug fixes - a *surprise* or two!

[takemehomegrandma]

have you used said OS on a modern, native PPC machine?  Did you personally apply the 4.1 u3 update yourself on a system?

First - you made an error by using the words "PPC" and "modern" in the same sentence; yesterdays ARM *smartbooks* are on par with Sam440. Current ARM Cortex-A9 smartbooks are on par with G4 (AFAIK, the Sam 460 isn't really) -- and the G4 had its peak half a decade ago!

Did you personally apply the 4.1 u3 update yourself on a system?

No, it was a very long time I owned a OS4 system, and I have absolutely no reason or ambition to ever own one again. I can't see a single benefit of an OS4 system over a MorphOS system, and it doesn't look like this fact will change anytime soon.

If the answer is no, you have nothing but hearsay to go on, sorry - Talking head nonsense.

Some "hearsay" also say the upgrade worked flawless (there has been many users closing up behind Hyperion to show their support in this after the **** hit the fan), but there was also a *massive* (relatively speaking) - even for an OS4 release - testimonies from respected OS4 users about the quality of the OS4.1.3 release. Denying this is futile, someone started to compile a long list of references of issues over at moobunny, or maybe it was two lists even, and if I would spend an hour browsing through AW.net, Amiga.org, Hyperion's forum, and moobunny, I am pretty confident I could present you with quite an impressive list of a significant number of people, most reporting more than one issue, and not few of them are of a *fundamental* kind. I can easily do that this afternoon. Do you want me to?

Edit:

In various forums presenting this "advent of OS4.1.4" news item, there are many suggestions of what bugs users hopes to have fixed. And new testemonies of OS4.1.3's "quality" keeps coming in as we speak, this was from *yesterday*:

"Same here, update 3 is really slow, slower than my windows 7 machine at booting, seems over a minute now, and the start up sound stutters like crazy."

http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=34424&forum=2&start=20&viewmode=flat&order=0#633014


"I can only compare my Mac mini G4 on MOS and my A1XE on OS 4.1.3

From cold MOS boots for me in around 10 seconds, OS 4.1.3 in around 1 min so there is a substantial difference, but as mentioned earlier, update 3 seems to have made the boot around 10 times slower than it was previously, I just look at the boot screen for a good minute or so after UBoot, not sure what change slowed it down so much."

http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=34424&forum=2&start=20&viewmode=flat&order=0#633016

OS4.1.3 boots multiple times slower than OS4.1.2, there are no rational reasons to explain this vast speed decrease other than something must be borked.

Look, there is a reason to why they announce an OS4.1.4, and it's *not* because OS4.1.3 was a good quality release, it's the very opposite. Why is this so hard to grasp?

[takemehomegrandma]

Just for a laugh I just timed my lowly Sam440ep 600MHz with u3.
It took 17 seconds from OS4.1 logo to loaded desktop, and that included a few seconds for DHCP look-up.

(Just to relate to "Duce's" post above): Since I haven't seen that myself, should I discard that as "hearsay" and "talking head nonsense"? :p

Look, I know that there are many users having had no problems whatsoever with the OS4.1.3 upgrade, never claimed otherwise, but the fact is that *never* had the amount of people *having* problems been *this high* with an OS4 release. And just because your machine boots in 17 seconds doesn't mean that "danwood's" does! Or do you call him (and everyone else having problems with OS4.1.3) *liars* based on *your* experience?

This is getting "funnier" by the minute...

Just because some people installed software that did things it shouldn't does NOT mean the OS is "fundamentally flawed".

Oh, tell me you aren't "doing a ssolie" here - blaming users and blaming applications! AFAIK danwood, and everyone else, simply followed the provided upgrade instructions (it *was meant* to be an upgrade, not a clean install only). He simply went from OS4.1.2 (where things worked) to OS4.1.3, everything else "Ceteris Paribus", and he got this effect.

kas1e (in the same thread) had a similar experience (but with different numbers): On a *clean, freshly installed* OS4.1.3 Peg2 system, it boots in 38 seconds, 50% slower than MorphOS on the very same system.

The thing is, OS4.1.2 was only 30% slower.

Huh?

[takemehomegrandma]

Well, it looks like it just comes down to your opinion then, fair enough. It doesn't make ISO distribution a better system, you just prefer it.

No, most rational, technical arguments speaks in favor of ISO-style distributions. Them tending to be bigger thus taking slightly longer to download is really the only negative aspect to it. Nothing subjective about it, we have been over this before, in many threads in the past.

And you wonder why people accuse you of not being positive when it comes to OS4? I know it's only your opinion, but using language like 'groundbreaking' and 'mythical' makes you come across as quite sarcastic and dismissive. Some might even consider it trolling, even if you did put a smiley face on the end.

Well, after the OS4.1.4 release they will do a major version bump to OS4.2.x, which usually means major changes, not minor. This OS generation is proclaimed to be the one who will make full use of the new features in "AmigaOne X1000" hardware, and some planned/promised features (maybe not in OS4.2.0, but further down the line) are well known, and indeed "groundbreaking", and "mythical" isn't really a bad word in the context either. For example I must say that I very much look forward to see how ssolie &co will solve *true SMP*, *true MP*, etc without breaking Amiga compatibility, as well as seeing all the cool stuff they have planned for "Xena"!

[takemehomegrandma]

Interesting, first time I've heard of that. You present it as a fact though, like it's normal behaviour, when you haven't even tried it out yourself. You really should qualify that with "some users have found" or something, or else some people might think you're trolling again.

No, *I am not* presenting *anything* as fact, I am merely relaying what *others* say, and what you in fact have just said here, in practice, is that kas1e and danwood are lying/trolling when they say that they found OS4.1.3 to boot slower than OS4.1.2 on their machines! Wow!

It's funny how relaying "hearsay" from respected OS4 users about OS4.1.3 being flawless is considered an absolute truth and fact, while at the same time relaying "hearsay" from other respected OS4 users about *problems* with OS4.1.3 is "trolling"! :rolleyes:

"Normal behavior" you say, well, "Normal behavior" is defined by an aggregation of the population. It's a well established fact that OS4.1.3 worked fine for some users, and it didn't work fine at all for others! This "unevenness" is the definition of bad quality, and the quality threshold for what quality Hyperion could accept as "normal OS4 behavior" *obviously* wasn't met in OS4.1.3, hence they have announced that they (despite earlier plans that OS4.2.0 would be the next release) have now *rather quickly* announced an OS4.1.4 release as well, in order to fix the outstanding issues reported to their bug tracker. Quality threshold wasn't met, they decide to fix it. Simple really. It's getting funnier and funnier that some people here so persistently and furiously denies this! :lol:

[takemehomegrandma]

No-one said update 3 was perfect

On the contrary, *plenty* said that...

but in no way was it as bad as it was being accused of.

It was surely bad enough for Hyperion to quickly announce a OS4.1.4 hotfix instead of going directly towards OS4.2.0 as planned.

This seems to be very hard for some people to take in...