Timberwolf Progress Update

[takemehomegrandma]

@AppleHammer

Fab is one of the developers of MorphOS, and he is also the developer of Odyssey (previously known as Origyn Web Browser) for MorphOS.

While this browser builds on several open source frameworks, it's not a simple port of something, there is a lot more to it than that. A great deal of work has been put into this project since it started in January 2009 (I think), and this has resulted in a completely new, unique and truly FABulous web browser, that can easily replace Internet Explorer, Firefox, Opera and Chrome on the mainstream platforms, but it is heavily inspired by Ibrowse, done in a 2011 level kind of way, using MUI4, etc, which is making this browser *the ultimate dream browser for any Amigan*. And Fab isn't asking for any money for this. There is no bounty, no registration fee, etc. In fact, in the readme you can read this as a *feature*: "- No PayPal donation needed"!

This doesn't stop Fab from releasing his work as open source, so it can be ported to other systems, like OS4. There is already a porting project going on that will bring the Odyssey browser to the OS4 platform, and to the best of my knowledge, Fab has even helped the OS4 port by giving advice, suggestions, etc.

IMO, this is good spirit!

Then we have the Friedens, who decided to cash in on the former Amizilla bounty, a bounty that originally had as condition that the port should be open sourced so that it would be open for all flavors of Amiga (even AROS and MorphOS), and this is what many people donated to. They are now making some kind of port of the Firefox web browser. They have even managed to change the timberwolf bounty conditions to make it quicker and easier to cash in the money by locking the bounty on an old version of Firefox.

This seems to be "just a port" of the open source Firefox Web Browser, with necessary "Amiga adjustments", hence it probably is heavily based on other peoples work that was released as open source with the ambition/spirit that their work should benefit many, on many platforms. But despite this, the Friedens obviously don't want others in the Amiga world to get access to their Amiga specific part of it, so they are determined to protect everything they can in order to prevent this.

I'm not saying they are doing anything illegal, I'm sure they have right to do this. But is it good spirit?

[takemehomegrandma]

@Fairdinkem

I dont think anyone had intention to port Timberwolf... so in my opinion this open vs closed discussion is useless.

Timberwolf on MorphOS would be completely redundant.

And as soon as Odyssey is ported to OS4, timberwolf will be redundant there as well...

[takemehomegrandma]

BTW - Thanks for all the improvements to OWB Fab.

It was just updated to version 1.14!

...and it was renamed to Odyssey to keep it from being confused with the OWB ports on OS4 and AROS (so please use the new name to avoid confusion).

Unfortunately, it is still possible to shorten it to OWB though! :lol: :lol: :lol:

[takemehomegrandma]

OWB fills in the gap but it certainly is not a solution to the need for a full fledged completely modern and fully capable internet browser ... in my humble opinion, despite how awesome Fabs work has been.

What does Firefox have that Odyssey doesn't? The only thing I can think of is the plugin feature, and it remains to see how much of a plus that will be on ppc/OS4 anyway. Back when I used Firefox on Windows (before I dumped it in favor of Webkit browser because Firefox being sooo sloooooow and feeling so bulky) I never had the need or want to even look at plugins.

Odyssey on the other hand, is a genuine Amiga browser, that everyone who used Ibrowse takes to their heart immediately, i.e. every Amigan out there. It's always based on the very latest webkit etc, so its HTML5/CSS3 capabilities is top notch. I think this is what will make Odyssey win over an old version of Firefox. I think Amigans will prefer the Amiga browser, especially if it's faster and more capable (which it most certainly will be), no matter the plugin feature of firefox, which honestly isn't that important...

Remember that it's not the crappy ODW on OS4 we are talking about, it's Odyssey...

on all Amiga platforms (AmigaOS, AROS, MorphOS etc)

At least Odyssey is open source, so anyone can port it to the other Amiga platforms. Timberwolf OTOH isn't...

I totally welcome and applaud Kas1e, Fab and the team for porting OWB to AmigaOS and I will use it but when Timberwolf arrives it will be hard not to choose it with all it's functionality and compatibility with certain sites that I frequent that OWB does not support

I have yet to find a site that Odyssey don't show just as good as any of the mainstream browsers on other platforms. If you do, let Fab know and he will look into it, I'm sure of that.

Odyssey *is not* ODW you know, so don't base your opinions of it based on that crappy ODW that's available for OS4.

[takemehomegrandma]

takemehome

Dont forget not only did FAB due original OWB morphos port for Free, but he shared sources with Os4 guys AND even helped them in the porting!

Do you guys think that hyperion guys will help anyone port to morphos? doubtful..

I *didn't* forget...

[takemehomegrandma]

@the bickerers...

For pity's sake, listen to yourselves.

There was a time when having more than one application for a given task was seen as a good thing. For years we had no modern standards compliant browsers and it sucked. Now we have several based WebKit (OWB/Oddysey) and soon gecko Firefox/Timberwolf). There's also NetSurf.

This is a good thing (tm).

Did anyone say it's bad?

[takemehomegrandma]

That depends on the quality of the port. If you add a few ifdefs and type "make" and you get an alien thingie that doesn't use Amiga UI, doesn't use Amiga libraries, doesn't use Amiga locale, is slow etcetera... you'll get a poor port.

Examples of poorly done ports:
OS4 OWB ports (specially the first ones that relied on SDL)
Firefox for OS4

Examples of excellent ports:
Netsurf for OS4
Odissey for MorphOS

ATM Odissey runs rings around all existing Amiga browsers so you can safely say that porting it took much more work than porting Firefox.

BTW coder skills also affect the quality of the port and Fab is a great coder and his products are great too (MPlayer, Odissey...). His two most famous ports are probably the best ports done to any platform.

I agree, and what some people seems to miss when they are comparing it to others, is that Odyssey isn't "just a port", it's a lot of *development* on top of that as well. That's why it's so good and unique, and simply can't be compared to other "OWB" or such. They aren't even in the same league. Odyssey is the only, real, full-fledged *Amiga browser*, the only of its kind...

[takemehomegrandma]

>Odyssey is the only, real, full-fledged *Amiga browser*, the only of its kind...

You're forgetting AWeb there...

Yeah Aweb, hehe...

[takemehomegrandma]

A firefox port is a good thing, not a bad one.

Nobody has said it's a bad thing for OS4 to have more browsers. On that platform, the Internet situation is desperate...

[takemehomegrandma]

Hooligan

You are completely wrong in what you are saying. FF 4 port could attract new users. How this can be denied is beyond me.. obviously nothing "commercial" will come from the platform.. (and by "commercial" i think you mean "industrial" )

Oh, but it's commercially dead allright, and some tens or hundreds new users ("inbred" from other parts of "the Amiga market" (cough cough - did that guy just say "market") that is equally commercially dead) won't change that fact. The fact that someone charge money for something doesn't make it commercially viable, in Amiga-land it just means that someone will hopefully cover their costs and have money for an occasional pizza with a few beers. Everything today is relying on volunteer work after the daytime work is over from people seeing this as their hobby. Nothing wrong in this though, we should be glad as long as people like Fab (and many others) continue to invest their free time into the platform!

[takemehomegrandma]

Timberwolf is for OS4 only, there is no "keep another 4(?) Amiga camps happy". Also if you think the Friedens give a **** about anything other than OS4, you need to up the meds. They would be perfectly happy if real Amiga, MOS and AROS all sank to the bottom of the ocean.

I hate people who tells what other people thinks. How the h*ll do you know what they think? Aiming at becoming the troll-master, are you? ;-)

Oh, but the accumulated comments, public proclamations, actions, etc from the Hyperion pack over the last decade gives quite a clear picture you know...

[takemehomegrandma]

Sorry, remind me what camp are you from? and takemehomegrandma with his blue butterfly avatar

What's the problem?

[takemehomegrandma]

Apparently when one is running out of arguments we have got new game: ha-ha, you are in different camp than me!

Yeah.

[takemehomegrandma]

BUT it is true that amiga.org is most hostile forum against OS4 and that is mostly because some MOS users who like to hijact every single OS4 thread.

The idea that some threads would be "owned" by a certain group of people, and that only a limited group of amiga.org members would be allowed to post in them, and only in a way (to both content and form) that is officially approved by "the OS4 forum posting committee" or whatever, is, simply put, absolutely ridiculous. This misconception is a sickness cultivated and spread from places like amigaworld.net and amigans.net, and if anything, moderators here should try to keep this site protected and free from this disease. There is no "hijacking", we are all members of the amiga.org forum and we are all allowed to post in every thread on this site we think we have something to say about, without the approval of utri007, klx300r, HotRod, and other crybabies. If people have things to say about the Frieden's view on open source, their morale, their skills, their ambitions, etc (which obviously is the case), then there is nothing in this site's Terms Of Service guidelines that prohibits this, so your cry for moderation, thread locking, and banning(?) is totally uncalled for. Comparisons of ethics, spirit and goodwill between the two major browser porters/developers *is* on topic in a thread about an amiga browser, and so is comparisons of the qualities of amiga browsers. What is not OK though, is spamming a thread with crap posts about how you don't like what is being said, frivolous moaning about moderation, and other off topic crap that some people seems to be doing here since yesterday. This is not OK, take that behavior elsewhere.

So. There.