How is OS4 ?

[takemehomegrandma]

Shouldn't you be comparing the Sam440 with the Efika, rather than the Peg1? Bit of an unfair contest otherwise, I would have thought.

You have a point there Karlos, since both builds on "G2" class CPU's, and of course Sam should win in performance there (the Efika is only 400MHz, while the Sam's CPU is clocked above 600 MHz AFAIK). The Efika is quite limited, it's biggest limitation compared to the Sam is perhaps the 128MB RAM (and slower IDE, only 2 USB 1.1, etc).

The strongest and most prominent feature of the Efika is without doubt its price:

Efika motherboard: $99.00 USD
18 Gauge Steel Vented EFIKA Case Kit: $99.99 USD
Motherboard + Case combo: $169.99 USD (add a HDD and GFX card if you want to, and then you have a complete computer)

http://search.directron.us/newsearch.php?find=efika

But since nobody who wants a good performing *desktop* machine would never buy a "G2" class machine anyway, comparisons from a *desktop* point of view are a little skew. If you have a cool little HW project going, like building a small LAN connected music player or whatever ideas your creativity has put in your mind, then the "G2" Efika is an interesting option. But if what you are looking for is a machine capable of taking on the role of a *desktop* machine, like playing modern media files, browsing heavy websites with rich media content, run emulation, compiling big projects, etc, then you would definitely want a computer with L2 cache at the least (a "G3") and preferably Altivec as well ("G4") and a clock frequency above 1GHz. Especially if you want to do several of those things at the same time.

So from a desktop POV it would be more relevant to compare it to eMac's and Mac Mini's instead. MorphOS on a Mac Mini 1.42GHz plays HD 720p x264 video streams smoothly, while (AFAIK) the "G2" Sam frameskips on DVD/MPEG2.

You can get eMac's with G4 @ 1.25GHz for about $50-$100 USD.
You can get Mac Mini's G4 @ 1.42 GHz for about $150-$250 USD. (The 1.5GHz/64MB VRAM version can be slightly more expensive)

(EDIT: Here is for example a Mac Mini 1.5GHz/64MB VRAM on e-bay whose auction is about to end. Current bid: US $177.50, Buy Now: US $300.00)

[takemehomegrandma]

For the price of a macmini and morph ... I can build a modern 8-12Gb DDR3 12 core ape-raper that can run everything and anything I could care to.

Maybe for the price of OS4 and an X1000 you can, but don't mix that up with MorphOS total system cost. With a little luck you can get a complete MorphOS G4 system (including the OS registration fee) for 200-300 EUR, depending on your HW preferences. I spent more money on *RAM alone* in the last PC I built for myself.

The OP wanted some reasons why OS4 is fun.

And someone told him that no matter how fun OS4 might be, MorphOS will be *ahelluvalot more* fun, since it's essentially the same thing only a lot better and more competent, and you know what - He was absolutely right!

[takemehomegrandma]

I'd just say that bashing the firefox port at this stage is a bit silly. It's still in the alpha stage.

And so is praising it at this early alpha stage...

When it's at least beta, then let's see how it stacks up.

Indeed!

[takemehomegrandma]

Thanks for all the information.
I have no interest in Morph at this time though, so can we please return the conversation to OS 4 ?

Fine by me.

You should buy some OS4 enabled hardware and then buy OS4 and try it out yourself, it's the only way to really find out how fun it is all in all.

Good luck!

[takemehomegrandma]

Well, thanks to it I can do one thing now that previously I couldn't on OS4... why shouldn't I praise it?

Varthall

If you're ready to discuss pro's, then you should also be ready to discuss con's.

But perhaps it's best to not make any comparisons at this point and wait with highlighting benefits and disadvantages until the software is here in a *release version*, when we *can actually see* what's *really* on the table?

What you really are doing isn't praising Timberwolf, you are voicing frustration about the extremely poor web browser situation you had to live with for so long on OS4. Fact is there is nothing special about Timberwolf alpha worth praising, it merely aims to come close to what everyone only takes for granted in 2010, nothing more, nothing less.

[takemehomegrandma]

The best measuring stick happens to be... MorphOS. I only see it as natural that such threads as this would include discussion about how OS4 compares to MorphOS.

I agree with Piru, comparing OS4 with MorphOS is a good way to get both OSes pros and cons.

+1

And as it turns out, OS4 nothing more than a MorphOS wannabe that in just about any point of measurement is inferior to MorphOS; OS4 has been struggling in its footsteps, far, far behind since its very beginning, and since it doesn't offer much (anything at all?) beyond MorphOS, I actually fail to see a rational reason for it to exist at all. But everyone is entitled to his own opinion.

So if someone asks a question about what merits OS4 have, then it's only natural that the better alternative is mentioned as well. MorphOS is the best measuring stick to OS4's capabilities. And MorphOS is everything OS4 is, but has a *much* lower system cost, better performance, better features, better Amiga compatibility and faster hardware that is *mainstream* and easily obtainable from everywhere, and you can download the full MorphOS 2.5 OS for free and try it out yourself on the closest Mac Mini or eMac and see for yourself before you buy. My advice to runequester was that if he really wants to know the "fun" stuff about OS4 he should buy some compatible HW and OS4 and try it out for himself. That's the only way. Maybe he likes it, maybe he don't. But since we are talking about an investment of €800+, it would be *close to criminal* to withhold the information that there is another option that is actually faster, better, cheaper than that, yet so much more capable.

Anyone interested in a "NG" option deserves to get info on all relevant options.

[takemehomegrandma]

(ain't there a TOS here?)

Hehe, that comment really made my day, thanks!

It's always the same though, as soon as OS4 advocates run out of rational pro-OS4 arguments compared to MorphOS (which happens rather instantly), they start whining and moaning about behavior and whatever and calls for censoring by moderators. It's seems to be the only way to sell OS4; to control and dictate the information flow by force. Quite sad if you ask me. There are already sites where only allow pro-OS4 talk, go there if you want to escape reality for a moment...

[takemehomegrandma]

@DAX

I wonder if you tried any of the alternatives before putting your cross and sizeable AWN post count behind Sam and OS4?

Obviously not!

[takemehomegrandma]

@takemehomegrandma

Since I own(complete set of disks, manuals, and kick rom) AmigaOS 1.3, 2.1, 3.1, I found my home/familiarity immediately in AmigaOS4.1

Since I own(complete set of disks, manuals, and kick rom) AmigaOS 1.3, 2.1, 3.1, I found my home/familiarity immediately in MorphOS!

OS4 is merely a sub-standard substitute for MorphOS (that was here long before OS4 development was even started), with quite poor Amiga compatibility in comparison, so it always puzzles me how anyone *really interested in Amiga* would even consider OS4. The only reason I can think of is some strange brand following (which is the only thing you are interested in as shown by your posts here), which is kind of sad, especially considering it was kind of "robbed" from the IP-owner under miserable circumstances. The most prominent part of Hyperion's product is a printed CD-cover with a boing-ball. They even highlighted this as a feature once.

Actually I feel familiarity with AmigaOS4 something i felt a little with Icaros (I have it here) and very little with Mos (shown to me by a very kind and capable person mind you).

This kind of statement looks really amazing to me. I know you said "feel", but could you give any argument to explain that feeling?

(all the more amazing when it's actually OS4 that introduces all kind of non amiga-like and unsuited concepts)

+1

We are many who is very thankful to your (the MorphOS team) ambitions and struggle to uphold the strongest possible Amiga compatibility, while still developing the Amiga environment further! The result is a more modern OS that still operates in the true Amiga way. Worth more than CD-covers with boing balls, if you ask me!

[takemehomegrandma]

many thanks to the people actually answering my question, I appreciate it

I'm glad that you got your answers from the on-topic posts! Mission accomplished!

Now everyone can officially *quit* posting comments about the thread drifting off-topic!

[takemehomegrandma]

this is true, but at least you got a 2 year warranty

Provided that the company you bought it from actually still exists in two years, and they have the resources and will to actually honor the warranty. The companies you put your trust in aren't exactly Apple or Sony.

Acube does indeed seem to be very honest, and apparently they have really good customer care, possibly even as good as Genesi offered the Pegasos customers, at least when it comes to warranty issues. But as a micro-company selling very odd and specialized hardware in relatively small volumes, they can as well be gone in a year.

Eyetech is an example of how it can go wrong. They were purely a marketing company with no in-house HW engineering competence of their own. They never acknowledged most of the flaws of their products (either they didn't know due to lack of competence, or they had no financial capability (since the problems were so *massive*), or simply no will), and after a while, they simply left the scene.

"A-EON" is another HW marketing company. New, unknown, untried. They will sell a new, unknown, untried product. Nothing is known about their long term financial strength to deal with warranty claims in 1 year and 10 months (what if they will encounter the same massive problems with their HW that Eyetech did?), but they are asking for *pre-payments* to get going. Yet you say "but I will get a two year warranty".

I find that amusing (and please continue reading).

and I can (presumably) send it to someone for repairs.

Well, I don't think Apple is going anywhere, do you? And even if they would run out of spare parts, you would still be better off financially by simply buying another Mac if your first one breaks down, then you would be buying *a single* Sam.

And the "X1000"? Well, many people here on this very forum reports how they are getting eMac's for $50-$100 a piece. That is complete 1.25 GHz G4 *systems* (including a built-in monitor). If the hinted prices of the "X1000" is correct, you can at least get 15-20 (or more) MorphOS capable systems (yes FIFTEEN TO TWENTY) for the price of *one* "X1000". That's the absurd price difference we are talking about! And I'd be damned if 20 computer dies on you within two years!

[takemehomegrandma]

@ runerequester

If you are willing to pay twice the price for a Mac mini so you get a warranty contract that says you will get a replacement in the unlikely case it breaks within two years, I am sure that can be arranged :-)

Hey, that sounds like a fool proof business idea! (provided there are enough "fools" )

You sell *one* Mac computer *at the price of 2*, you provide the anxious customer with a two year warranty slip, and as long as 100% of the sold Mac's doesn't break down within two years, you will make a profit!

And *it would still* be cheaper than OS4 hardware (and *run circles* around any Sam)!

[takemehomegrandma]

@TMHM

OS4 is basically the same as OS3.x and then complaint when a 3.x user tells you that they feel familiarity with OS4. Any user of OS3.x will notice AmigaOS4 IS what they are used to, running on PPC (I talk as an end user).

MorphOS is basically the same as OS3.x and 3.x users tells you that they feel familiarity with MorphOS. Any user of OS3.x will notice MorphOS IS what they are used to, running on PPC (I talk as an end user).

There are many testimonies from numerous sources over the last couple of years, by people installing MorphOS on a new partition of their Amiga's, boot it, and simply use the same applications (only the system friendly ones of course), files, etc. They didn't have to change much, they simply dual boot their Amiga's into *the very same* environment, no matter if they boots OS 3.1 or MorphOS! Other new MorphOS users simply pulled their HDD's out of their Amiga, inserted it in a Pegasos, and started use it just the same. It just works! Including dopus, Hyperion games (which is quite funny! , etc. At the same time OS4 users has to install specially recompiled OS4 versions of many programs, because the Amiga versions simply won't work. So don't come here talking about Amiga compatibility!

Moreover familiarity doesn't end there, to many Amiga is a boxed commercial home computer running the Amiga Operating System, and we will finally get that with the AmigaOne X1000.

I get it.

One can get about 10 (TEN) *complete* MorphOS systems, with OS registration fee *paid*, for the price of a single "X1000" mounted in some standard PC server case, running an OS that is slower than MorphOS, has less features than MorphOS, has worse Amiga compatibility than MorphOS, etc, all in all is *quite inferior* to MorphOS. And you actually advocate the latter, with the only reason that it will be called "AmigaONE" (not even "Amiga") and run an OS that is called "AmigaOS" (not even "Amiga OS").

What can I say? All rationality has left the building!

Boing! Boing!

[takemehomegrandma]

Have you actually read Dax' post? He was referring to my and Crumb's posts, not to his own ones!

I have read them all, as well as those from those people crying "foul" when they simply don't like the arguments(!) presented. My reply was directed to them all, not one post in particular.

[takemehomegrandma]

Indeed and you can even get more if you compare the price with the used car I wanted to buy.

Don't start talking about cars now, please...

You see it all boils down at what you want, what you desire

Of course, and that's my point. I'm just trying to figure out how anyone can desire something 1/2 as good at 10x the cost. The answer so far boils down to: A boing ball!