Classic HW, SAM440 or EFIKA ?

[takemehomegrandma]

How is it to emulate 68k in OS4.x on a SAM440 (with UAE?) and watch demos and play games ? Will it work "properly" (as in "good enough") ?

UAE is resource hungry and the Sam CPU is weak. Don't expect miracles there. If you want a good UAE experience then you'd better go for a Wintel PC.

I really like the benefits of new HW (more stable probably) which is faster and give nice speed enhancements to everyday desktop-amiga usage (browsing internet, playing mods etc, maybe some RTG gaming etc), but losing classic compatibility is a downer.

Also, what is the best option: EFIKA+MorphOS or SAM440+OS4.1 ?
(if you count out the price issue, what is best ?)

Sam is slightly more powerful than the Efika, and it has much better specs and expansion possibilities. The Efika is more limited but comes at a fraction of Sam's price tag.

Which one is the best of MorphOS and OS4 is heavily debated. I'd go for MorphOS if I were you, and if backwards compatibility is important to you, then MorphOS would be the better choice.

IMHO your *best* option would be to wait for the Mac Mini version of MorphOS and then buy a second hand G4 Mac Mini. Then you will have it all, the most powerful Amiga ever at a *very* nice price!

:-)

[takemehomegrandma]

Palm wrote:
Yeah, I saw that MOS would run on macmini g4´s. However, I am wondering if this will be released anywhere within my lifetime (no, I am not 80). But I do know that after being an amiga enthusiast since 1985, that things thend to drag out in terms of time. 1 month can easily be 5 years without anyone lifting an eyebrow

No one knows for sure. The MorphOS team isn't known for practicing good communication (or any communication whatsoever), so all you can do is guess based on what you see on shows, etc.

I did see the presentationvideo made, that MOS would run on any of the PPC mac minis (as they are mostly the same inside). That is good news, though. But, how comoatible will it be ? Will it have all the drivers...audio, video, usb, ata etc ?

I think it's some unfinished drivers that's holding back the release at this point. Video shouldn't be any problem though, the Radeon support is there since ages.

I would love to get a old G4 mini and try it out. Is it possible to test this ?

No, not until it's released.

It will be worth waiting for though IMHO, it will be the best solution ever! It was said that under some circumstances it will be slightly below 2x the speed of the Pegasos2 G4...

:-)

[takemehomegrandma]

Painkiller wrote:
MOS for Mac Mini isn't ready yet, but I'd say that it doesn't make sense now to buy Efika or Sam. Just wait for the MOS on Mac Mini and then buy it

Yeah, that sounds like the best thing to do...

[takemehomegrandma]

So a macminiG4 version of MOS is something I would go for. unless I find 500 euros in a pocket that I had forgotten about

That's the best option IMHO. But if you want to get started now but feel that the Efika is too underpowered, you could always look for a second hand Pegasos 2 G4. :-)

OS4 is defintely MUCH cooler than MOS

Excuse me, but I beg to differ! ;-)

With a few exceptions, I think it's safe to say that MorphOS is the first hand choice for anyone who really experienced it. And if Amiga compatibility is important to you, then it's the best option for that reason as well.

-- maybe not technically, but it is Amiga.

So is MorphOS! :-)

And I would very much prefer AOS before MOS -- just because it is exactly that, Amiga
I am loyal to the brand, even though MOS might be better or more compatible or whatever.

Well, whatever floats your boat. But what if Amiga Inc (the legal owner of the Amiga IP) succeeds in their efforts to remove the Amiga brand from OS4? Then what?

 :crazy:

[takemehomegrandma]

BTW: Is the EFIKA OPEN CLIENT just a cased EFIKA 5200B mobo ?

Yes, it's a complete system (case, motherboard, HDD and GFX card).

Also look here:
http://www.directron.com/efika.html

There you will find the Efika motherboard for $99. Especially good if you already have suitable components lying around and don't mind providing a case yourself. Or you could go for the motherboard/case combo, and pick a HDD and GFX card of your choice before checking out...

ALSO: Is the Peg mobos "dead" as in totally discontinued ?

Yes, but it's "alive" as in currently the fastest, working Amiga solution out there, that you could still get second hand.

which means EFIKA is the "new" mobo in the range, taking over for the peg2 ? (cheaper, yet less specced) ??

The Efika isn't comparable to the Pegasos 2. Not in any way. If you want real power and expandability then there currently is *no* option like the Pegasos 2 G4.

The Mac Mini will beat it though, but it's not here now...

[takemehomegrandma]

Palm wrote:
I am afraid a $99 deal on the efika ended in 2007 :-)

Now it costs lik 375 or something (with case i believe).

A $99 efika would be awesome, as this is SO cheap, that I would buy it even if it is not ultracool (hardware-wise).

It's still there alright, $99 Efika, in stock = YES. If you live outside USA you will have to contact them directly via mail instead of using the webshop in order to make special arrangements for payment and shipping.

[takemehomegrandma]

1. Mac Mini w/MOS: cool, but unavailable at the moment.

Nothing in the Amiga NG scene will (ever?) beat this though, so I think it's worth waiting for. :-)

2. Efika + MOS:    Not quite powerful enough, imho.

Available, about equally powerful as the Sam but much less expandable.

3. Peg2 + MOS:     "old" HW ....naaaahhh..

Pegasos2 G4 is the fastest Amiga solution available *today*, although only by second hand. Powerful, good quality and good price on many of them.

Let's have a poll. Which one would YOU go for ?
1,2,3 or 4 ?

I would go for (in order):

If you want power and don't mind waiting: 1, 3, 2
If you want it cheap and have it now: 3, 2, 1

Personally I don't consider the Sam an option. If it had a 7447A CPU or 8640 SoC I would buy it at that price, but not with this class of CPU.

[takemehomegrandma]

60W is fine.

You will *love* MorphOS! :-)

[takemehomegrandma]

Ruud wrote:

Everblue wrote:
This maybe a stupid question, but can you watch a dvd on SAM?

Yes you can, assuming you install a dvd drive  :-)

And that is in full screen with no frame skipping of course? (Just to be sure about the details... ;-))

[takemehomegrandma]

amigadave wrote:
@Ruud,

what do you find so limiting about the EFIKA?  I know that it has near zero expandability and that it is not exactly a powerhouse, but what can you do on your SAM440ep that you can't do on your EFIKA?

Well, the Sam does have the interfaces you'd expect from a desktop machine. Unfortunately, it doesn't have the CPU performance you'd expect, and AFAIK all external controllers (including the GFX) shares the same PCI bus/bandwidth. So you could connect more gizmo's to the Sam than the Efika, but after that you will sit with about the same low computing performance.

[takemehomegrandma]

Ruud wrote:

I agree with you. The Sam is short on cpu performance, ram and video ram (unless you use the pci slot).

Well, it wasn't designed to be a desktop computer, but for industrial customers AFAIK.

I would prefer something approaching the spec of my Asus Eee Box for a small form factor AOS4.1/Morphos2.1 machine but that doesn't yet exist so I accept that and use/enjoy what I have.

I would prefer a 8640 (the single core version) + SB600 combo (if it can be done). There has been discussions about such configurations over at powerdeveloper.org. You would get:

1x (or 2x) e600 (G4) cores with Altivec @ 1250MHz (and 1MB L2 cache per core)
1x PCI-Express 16x slot for Graphic Cards (8 lanes connected)
0-6 PCI 2.3 slots or on board chips (depending on the board design)
4x Gigabit Ethernet
10x USB 2.0
PATA (2 devices)
4x SATA 2.0
The standard Serial/Parallel/Floppy/PS2 interfaces (if you want them)
AC97 Audio

This would essentially be a 2-chip computer, and I'm sure it could be made quite cheap.

I'd like to see A-cube making a board like this. But maybe this isn't what the industrial customers wants?

[takemehomegrandma]

Ruud wrote:

takemehomegrandma wrote:

Well, it wasn't designed to be a desktop computer, but for industrial customers AFAIK.

I'm not sure many industrial customers would pay that kind of money for a board with Sam's specs.  I wonder if the whole industrial angle was a back up plan if the AOS4.1 deal didn't happen or maybe it was the other way around?

Well, who knows? But that's what they say at least...

I would prefer a 8640 (the single core version) + SB600 combo (if it can be done). SNIP

This would essentially be a 2-chip computer, and I'm sure it could be made quite cheap.

Yeah that sounds more like it. But what are the chances?  The flex version of Sam seems to be next and it offers nothing over the current model performance wise.

Cheers,
Rudi.

The new Sam will possibly be a little cheaper, and you could choose your own graphics card (and pick one with more memory for instance), although only PCI ones.

I think they should ditch that, and make a 8640+SB600 combo instead! :-) Then the Sam would become more worthy of the 540 Euros...

[takemehomegrandma]

orb85750 wrote:
I noticed no option #6, which might be
AROS on x86 with emulator (Amiga Forever)
for backward compatibility.  If this is
a stupid idea, I'm willing to accept that
it is, but please tell me why.  (Still
learning!)  I think so many of us are in the
same "what to do" boat right now.  Thanks, -Dave

AROS isn't usable in any serious way. It completely lacks the native versions of Amiga applications, and it has no backwards compatibility or 68k/PPC CPU emulation whatsoever, and unless you run it hosted on Linux it's kind of limited in what hardware it supports AFAIK (in other words - don't expect it to install it natively on any new x86 machine with whatever hardware as easily as you install Windows).

UAE emulates a hardware classic Amiga. As such, it runs an OS within the OS. This can in no way be compared to the seamless 68k emulation in MorphOS for instance, which I think is what you may want. If you want UAE you'd better run WinUAE on Windows IMHO.

P.S.  Option #5 might end up being the most
powerful, but there is something not so
attractive about taking used-up Apple stuff
to run Amiga.  It just seems a little dirty
to have my Amiga not only *look* like an Apple,
but actually to *be* an Apple.  ;-)

It becomes what OS you put in there. As for the exterior looks, nobody can claim that a Sam looks like an Amiga either. If you so strongly dislike the looks of an Apple case, I guess you'd have to find/build your own box to put it in. Perhaps that would be worth it for you. Personally I couldn't care less, as long as I get the fastest Amiga experience *ever seen*, at a *very* decent cost! :-)