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Offline takemehomegrandma

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Re: Next step for Amiga(like)OS?
« on: July 15, 2008, 09:46:51 AM »
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Piru wrote:
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Take all that talent and knowledge from both OSes and create a new Amiga compatible and "Amiga like" OS that is a step into the future for everyone.

I see a small problem here, assuming Amiga Inc wins (and I can't see how they could lose really), it means that they would pursue any attempt to re-use the knowledge gained from working with the AmigaOS 4.0 (it is based on the original sources after all), meaning anyone in the team would be tainted forever.

So assuming such project would ever be started (note: this is speculation, I am not signing up to any such project here), it'd be quite impossible to include anyone from the OS4 team, just alone because of this.

BTW I don't find this funny, only slightly ironic.


Indeed, any OS4 developer will be like infected with the plague in this regard; they are forever polluted by Amiga IP and all other "AmigoidOS" developers should make sure to never even go near them.
MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)
 

Offline takemehomegrandma

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Re: Next step for Amiga(like)OS?
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2008, 10:48:46 AM »
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amigadave wrote:

I think that the AOS4.x team would need to be careful about what they create in the future,


Indeed, like *anything* "AmigoidOS"! Anything they will do in this regard in the future will be legally polluted with Amiga Inc IP.

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but doubt that AInc. will waste their slim resources going after a hobby OS


The owners/investors of Amiga Inc has paid good money for the Amiga IP (millions of dollars) and if what you claim would have been true we wouldn't have seen this current lawsuit. Amiga Inc is *all about IP*, and its owners are obviously prepared to protect it.

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if the AOS4.x team were to join up with the MorphOS2.x team and create something new, but similar to MorphOS2.x that would retain its backward compatibility with Classic Amiga software.


But WHY? MorphOS 2.0 is *already here*, why do something new?

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The AOS4.x team can't be tainted forever to never work on anything close to an "Amiga-Like" OS.


Yes they can. They have seen the AmigaOS sources, they have worked with them. Few people on this planet has *as detailed and in-depth knowledge* about that part of Amiga's IP as those people. I have seen posts on online forum suggesting that all the OS4 team would have to do would be "removing the Amiga Inc IP", and then continue as usual (with a different name perhaps), and similar wishful thoughts. But from a legal point of view, that is *impossible*, you can't separate the IP once you have mixed them, and you can't "unlearn" the Immaterial Property from your brain, which will forever mean that anything they do in the future that is related to anything similar would be a big no-no, and would be like asking for trouble.

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What would AInc. have to gain to start another lawsuit against the team if they start work on something new, but are using their knowledge and talent toward a similar, but different result?


If it's different (i.e something like Windows Vista, Linux, i.e. anything not related to AmigaOS) then *maybe* they would loosen the leash a bit (although it would naturally be in their best interest to keep an eye on them to spot any traces of Amiga IP that may have sneaked into the new OS, and they probably would do this). But if it's not Amiga related, why would anyone here be interested?

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AInc. has not gone after the MorphOS2.x team lately.


They can't. They never could.

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It just makes sense that if we could somehow put both sides back together working on one solution instead of two,


Oh I understand your point. And it's a nice thought!

In the year 2000 the entire community of users and developers could have gathered up around MorphOS. That would have made a difference back then. However, things played out differently. A *second* Next Generation "AmigoidOS" effort was launched instead.

You ask for *one* solution, and that one is already here, has been here all along, and will be here in the future as well. All users and application developers are completely free to jump on the MorphOS ship. Maybe some will when that other ship sinks? Who knows. But the OS4 developers can't be taken on board however (meaning: *as crew*; if they are mere "passengers" (users or third party application developers) it wouldn't be a problem, but they can't work on the OS itself). It would put the only remaining viable NG option at risk, as it would be a valid reason for Amiga Inc to open fire. And they aren't really needed either, there are already a clever bunch developing MorphOS. ;-)

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it would get done twice as fast and might lead to something better than either alone has achieved.


I think at this point it's more about finding a commercial purpose for the OS...
MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)
 

Offline takemehomegrandma

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Re: Next step for Amiga(like)OS?
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2008, 10:58:54 AM »
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amigadave wrote:
This is starting to sound too much like you guys want to exclude the AOS4.x team members no matter what and I am wondering if the motives are more than just objective.


It's simply about realism. Sorry to break your nice dream, but it can't happen, not even if the MorphOS team would have wanted it to. No other motives than that.

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This thread was probably a bad idea anyway.


Nah, maybe this needed to be straightened out once and for all? ;-)

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Seems that our best hope for a unified future is for AInc. to go under, just like every other Amiga owner has.  They sure aren't going to do us any good.


Amiga Inc won't "go under".

Amiga Inc is a bunch of Intellectual Property, that's all it is. If anything, it will be sold. But that only means that the IP changes owners.
MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)
 

Offline takemehomegrandma

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Re: Next step for Amiga(like)OS?
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2008, 11:54:53 PM »
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And that's absolute crap.  Disassembly can only at best show similarities.


Of course it's absolute crap. It was part of the FUD campaign against MorphOS that Amiga Inc and Hyperion jointly fired off as part of their "OS4 marketing efforts" as soon as they teamed up to build their own OS4 (you see originally, it was MorphOS that was supposed to become OS4 since that was quite far progressed and complete at the time already, but that didn't happen (thanks to the influence of Ben Hermans of Hyperion)). Nothing more, nothing less.

MorphOS was years ahead and had a tremendous momentum in the community at the time. It had to be stopped, and FUD was supposed to be the way. The campaign was intensive and some people really believed it. Still today we see people calling MorphOS illegal, and using those same old arguments in discussions. :roll: Well, it turned out that MorphOS wasn't stopped, but a community rift was created instead.

Here is a *small* collection of examples from the past:
http://www.biclodon.com/misc/amigafarm/benhermans/

Note that you can easily replace "MorphOS" with "OS4" in almost every single one of these quotes, and it will reflect the situation of *today* with lawsuits and all (against *Hyperion* of course, *not* the MorphOS team). Do this when you for example read this (and this is a favorite of mine):

Ben Hermans of Hyperion: "The failure of Amiga Inc and the MorphOS team to come to terms is in part due to the fact that Amiga wants to assert their ownership and intellectual property rights over the Amiga OS (for which they paid 4.5 M USD) whilst the MorphOS team happily continues to refute those claims"

Ironic, huh? ;-)

(Here and here are some more)

FUD, FUD, FUD, nothing more, nothing less.

There has *never* been a case against MorphOS.
MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)
 

Offline takemehomegrandma

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Re: Next step for Amiga(like)OS?
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2008, 09:50:45 PM »
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Hans_ wrote:
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Painkiller wrote:
I have MOS 2.0 currently installed on my PEG II and I haven't had this good "Amiga" experience in years. The system is responsive, it support modern USB devices out of the box etc. AOS is far behind and it has little to none hardware to run on etc. There isn't a single good program to run on AOS that wouldn't have been ported to MOS or have a better alternative at MOS.


Far behind? I think not. Comparing the MOS 2.0 and AOS 4.1 feature lists, I think that they're in a pretty similar state actually.

Hans


The latest OS4.1 announcement doesn't mean a thing when the entire OS4 effort is as dead as a beaten horse!



As I just posted on moobunny (as *part* of a post): "The only way this can be prevented is by some serious make up sex and renewed marriage vows. And the odds for that happening at this point are pretty slim IMHO. Amiga Inc (whatever that means, if anything, doesn't matter) are going forward with AmigaOS 5 (whatever that means, if anything, doesn't matter). They have fought since 2003 or so to get OS4 back in house. Over time they have realized that this won't happen. Now they just want to get it out of the way, get their money back, and perhaps kick some ass in the process."

The difference between Hyperion's OS 4.1 and MorphOS is the "alive" status and "does have a chance of a future".

I would actually be *happy* to be proved wrong on this (really!), and if that happens, I'll eat the same virtual hat that "ironfist" had to eat when MorphOS 2.0 was released within the announced time frame! :-)

Call me on this when it happens! :-)
MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)
 

Offline takemehomegrandma

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Re: Next step for Amiga(like)OS?
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2008, 09:53:17 PM »
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Hans_ wrote:
BTW, combining the coding teams from MOS, AOS4 and/or AROS would hit one fatal snag: deciding which bits from which OS to keep.


Yeah, MorphOS got MUI4, Cybergraphics, Poseidon and Ambient. Tough call! ;-)
MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)
 

Offline takemehomegrandma

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Re: Next step for Amiga(like)OS?
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2008, 10:18:32 PM »
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Hans_ wrote:

Not quite true. According to Genesi the Efika production ceased in September 2007.


This kind of "production ceased in..." statements purposely projects the erroneous image of a *continuous* production that *suddenly terminates*. That has never been the case, be it Pegasos, Efika or AmigaOne. Production was always run in limited one time *batches*. However, no more batch of 5200B Efika's will be produced, that's correct. :-)

Genesi will in a more or less close future want to negotiate MorphOS support for *new* things like this, this (it's based on Freescale MPC8610), these 5, and perhaps even this.

While waiting for tangible hardware to decide upon, the MorphOS team has been investigating this path (be sure to look at that video).

All in all, MorphOS *will* have options post Efika! :-)
MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)
 

Offline takemehomegrandma

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Re: Next step for Amiga(like)OS?
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2008, 10:22:42 PM »
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Hans_ wrote:
@takemehomegrandma

AFAICT, Painkiller's post was talking about the technical aspects of the OS.

This whole "OS4 is as dead as a beaten horse" routine is getting really old and boring.


Maybe it's about time to get used to it?

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Some people have been saying that for years. The fact that OS 4.1 even exists suggests strongly that it isn't dead.


Sorry to say this, but it suggests *nothing* else than that development has been continued *despite* the poor legal situation.
MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)
 

Offline takemehomegrandma

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Re: Next step for Amiga(like)OS?
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2008, 10:52:43 PM »
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Sorry to say this, but continued development is contrary to the "dead" status that you claim.


Maybe Bernie continued Amithlon development as well? For some limited audience, including himself and his family? Who knows?
MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)