X1000 benchmarks

[itix]

There's absolutely no way you can compete with "costs nothing" running on commodity hardware that's faster than anything the combined purples can come up with.

Is X1000 sold at 3000$ your strategy to compete against AROS? :-)

This X1000 project has big "dead end" written in the wall. The computer built in 2012 and sold at $3000 is only marginally better than used Macs from yesteryears. The platform has stagnated. This is the final stop. Last passengers will be served and then it is over.

It is time to admit PPC is finished. And when you have done that start enjoying old Macs, old Amigas, old/new AmigaOnes, SAMs, or whatever, again. The train is still here. There just aren't tracks anymore.

The traditional "blue" argument against it used to be that AROS is woefully far behind, but that's simply not true any more. In fact, it's OS4 and MOS that are lagging behind AROS in some areas now (3D springs to mind immediately).

Hmm... I think you are confused. MorphOS never had problem with AROS and they have shared their work in the past. It is just that AROS not having binary compatibility and not so developed it has been dismissed by both MorphOS and OS4 users.

AROS is a research operating system interesting in its own way.

[itix]

I'm also not convinced we've really seen what the hardware is capable of yet. We know that OS4 certainly isn't making the most of it right now, being restricted to 32-bit operation on a single core. Even 64-bit PPC linux will have limitations if you use a modern graphics card with it as you are unlikely to get a vendor-supplied driver for PPC (unlike OSX) and will have to rely on whatever open source alternatives there are.

Luckily OS4 don't have to rely on whatever open source alternatives there are

[itix]

All three modern Amiga-like platforms rely on emulation for 68k Amiga software, when they don't run on 68k CPUs (i.e. excluding 68k AROS). The only thing is that the emulation in AROS is different from the emulation in OS4 and MorphOS. The main differences are:

Sorry, I didn't know AROS was binary compatible with 68k software, I havent looked at aros-exec nor developer mailing list for a while. Is there a distro I could try in Virtual PC? I'd love to try some 68k software for benchmarking purposes. SysSpeed, P96Speed, AIBB...

There is also some 68k software I can't run on MorphOS but perhaps it works better in AROS.

1. OS4 and MorphOS have a JIT for 68k software, whereas AROS doesn't yet.
2. OS4 and MorphOS don't have to swap the byte order of 68k code, whereas AROS does (not including AROS PPC and AROS 68k).

I don't think swapping byte order is relevant (see Amithlon). Just like JIT is not so relevant anymore when you have got 1GHz+ speeds.

(Though, admittely, not having 68k binary compatibility was greater disadvantage in last decade than it is now...)

[itix]

It's not my strategy for anything.

But you work for Hyperion to improve OS4, don't you?

The whole reason this point has come up is the reiteration of the point that MOS runs on much cheaper hardware that so far seems to turn in equally good performance and that this is some sort of decisive factor in the X1000 being a failure; "I could buy 10 macs for that price and they'd each be as fast" may be a valid observation, but *if* performance versus cost was your only motivation you'd use AROS.

Indeed. MorphOS can stay alive only by improving its software. The operating system must go forward and key software must advance respectively. Everyone who have used MorphOS 2 recognizes it again when it is discussed or spotted somewhere.

Likewise, despite your pleas to the contrary, "blue camp" trolls were always keen to point out that AROS was basically a hobby project not-quite-going-anywhere and certainly light years behind the level of maturity and compatibility of MOS and is thus not a serious option for the discerning Amiga users. I find it really hard to believe you've never come across the latter sentiment in your forum travels.

AROS is a hobby project not going anywhere and is light years behind. There is no doubt about it. AROS is completely different cup of tea. It provides source compatible platform for Amiga users who want Amiga on their x86. Its strength is not in polished UI or software, its strength is in open source and x86.

As I said, considering many were insistent it would never arrive at any price, the fact it exists at all and is at least as good as a commercial machine that basically help put apple back on the map is quite an achievement. It may very well be the last PPC desktop machine ever built, but that doesn't detract from the fact that it was realized.

Nice, they did it, we can move forward.

Not at all. The exchange of code between developers of the two has never had any bearing on the opinions of camp trolls. This just about summed it up perfectly: http://www.amiga.org/gallery/index.php?n=3377

I have only met AROS developers so far

AROS has 68K binary compatibility. Janus UAE running in "coherence" mode has been around for a little while now. You may have to set it up initially (I had to, but I haven't tried more recent releases), but what do you want for free?

Janus UAE again? Ok, let's see if my old 68k MUI applications run under AROS Zune.

[itix]

Granted. Tell me, are there any 68k libraries in regular use on OS4 or MorphOS that don't have native equivalents? The Emumiga project should allow AROS to mix 68k and native libraries, and it'll be good to have some idea of the benefits this could bring.

I don't know why it should matter because 68k MUI class can be embedded in applications.

[itix]

For someone who a couple of posts ago admitted they'd barely paid any attention to AROS for a while, it seems odd for you to be so sure about this. Perhaps it would be better for you to take a fresh look at AROS to see where it's at now.

I just did and I am not sure if you wish to have my comments. First of all browsing files with Wanderer is pain and it is much better browse files using a dock. Running SysMon results in crash. I can't change theme without restarting computer. Even changing screenmode can't be done without closing windows. Is Restart AROS in Shutdown menu (which doesnt have Shutdown btw) supposed to work? It would be also nice if Intuition settings had click to front option. The default Zune (MUI) theme is stuck in year 1993.

It is not bad. I mean stuff is there and Icaros comes with lot of software. Initial appearance of Icaros was very nice (nice background, preconfigured toolbar) but I find it is difficult to use.

Anyway, you forgot to mention that I have to buy Amiga Forever to run 68k software in AROS natively. Are there instructions how to use AROS/68k in AmiBridge?