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Author Topic: Envoy source and availability  (Read 29331 times)

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Offline kolla

Re: Envoy source and availability
« on: September 30, 2024, 08:02:55 PM »
It’s old and hackish anyways, why not create something better from scratch? Start with concepts of what you wish to accomplish (is printer sharing still imprtant? is not using tcp/ip still a thing?) and then draft some protocols for how to achieve what you want, and then try to implement them, one after the other.
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline kolla

Re: Envoy source and availability
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2024, 08:25:44 AM »
At the same time it was still IP based and therefore could share layer 3 with other stacks without clashing with each other. Nothing hackish about it at all.

Its original limitations did not go away, though. Just like a TCP/IP stack, Envoy assumes it has complete ownership of the configured NICs and it will not play nice with others ("my way or the highway").

So, which is it? "share layer 3 with other stacks without clashing" or "not play nice with others"?

One quite profound "clash" that I recall, is that of what UID 0 is.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2024, 08:27:37 AM by kolla »
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline kolla

Re: Envoy source and availability
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2024, 09:50:40 AM »
NetFS Revised is a lovely piece of software for Amiga compatible filesystem and ARexx port sharing.

I have an issue with client systems resetting/crashing when remote file share server reboots.
(But it seems to only happen when Workbench is loaded?)

Many years ago, I briefly started implementing the netfs protocol in python, with the goal of having a lighter alternative to smb and nfs for sharing file system to Amiga from non-amiga systems... but that project got lost in time.
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline kolla

Re: Envoy source and availability
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2024, 09:37:10 PM »
So are we approaching “hackish” yet?
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline kolla

Re: Envoy source and availability
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2024, 10:18:12 AM »
Perhaps you have reading comprehension issues.

Or maybe you have such issues? As olsen points out, there are "clashes" that needs to be resorted manually for Envoy and TCP/IP stacks to work well on same SANA-II device. This was still needed last time I tried latest version of Envoy (which I admit is like many years ago now). This is what I meant with "hackish".

Here i from the 3.1 update on aminet (http://aminet.net/package/comm/net/Envoy3_1Update)

Quote
If you are using a TCP/IP protocol stack like AS225, INet-225, Miami, or AmiTCP, you need to have SANA-II networking devices that support multiple protocol stacks. Most devices do. You also should not use the same IP or ARP numbers for Envoy that you are using for TCP/IP. Unless you are specifying your own numbers during the configuration, this Installation will automatically increase the common defaults to avoid conflicts.

(It is also worth nothing that this update has binary patch for a2065.device and ariadne_ii.device - hm, why is that)
« Last Edit: October 03, 2024, 10:35:33 AM by kolla »
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline kolla

Re: Envoy source and availability
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2024, 10:53:46 AM »
@olsen

On a slightly related note, with OS 3.2...
- what do C:Owner and C:Group actually do?
- what do C:List LFORMAT %U and %G actually show?

What user/group database is supposed to be in place here? Where is this supposed to go?
Integration with Roadshow usergroup.library? Old MuFS? Does Amiga need equivalent of nsswitch? :D
« Last Edit: October 03, 2024, 10:54:55 AM by kolla »
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline kolla

Re: Envoy source and availability
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2024, 06:00:52 PM »
@olsen

Thank you for taking time to answer this, it’s a bit puzzling with these commands in OS 3.2 that don’t appear to do anything,  it’s not obvious they are only for network filesystems, in practice only Envoy. And back in the days, also MuFS (which integrated better with IP stacks, as uid/gid 0 is “root/admin” and not “nobody/guest”). Do you know of any other filesystem supporting this? Your own smbfs perhaps? I don’t see any attempt to open any library or resource when using owner/group/list…

As for bugs in sana2 devices, yes… that’s always a problem, not all sana2 devices were “prepared” to be shared.

MuFS was fairly effective when using standard commands/software, but without memory protection it’s all kinda moot. Geert jumped off Amiga when CBM folded, and has since been active Linux developer, where he to this day is the man signing off patches to Linux/68k (as well as powerpc iirc). He still has his A4000 I think :)
« Last Edit: October 03, 2024, 06:06:10 PM by kolla »
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline kolla

Re: Envoy source and availability
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2025, 02:36:42 PM »
I'd say "commodity interface", aka CX.

All MUI software by default offer a commodity interface, and it's darn handy.
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline kolla

Re: Envoy source and availability
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2025, 03:10:26 AM »
commodities can give you something similar for GUI based applets

Commodities don't necessarily have GUI, what makes you think so?
AutoPoint, ClickToFront and NoCapsLock for example, don 't.

Quote
what's the use case? here's one - every time you want to use an external rexxport, you need to check if the port exists, and if it doesn't, run the host for that port, if you even know where to find it.

Not sure what you mean with "external rexxport", but if you mean an arexx port of a program, and your complaint is that you need to run the program to make the port available... yes, is that hard? What I hear is that you want the system itself to detect that something is trying to open an arbitrarily named arexx port, and then launch the software that's somehow is registered with this arbitrary port name... correct? The question becomes, how to detect what port is attempted, and how to ensure the right software is started so that something can answer on the port correctly before the client gives up. In principle you can have a script that listens to all the ports you have set up in a "servers" like file, and when something connects, it will shut down its port and launch the software so it can open the real port... however, the client may have become unhappy at this point, because of the port "hand over", or simply because launching the software may take too long.

Quote
Or you want to open on a named PUBSCREEN. But you're first to arrive, and the screen isn't open yet.

Well, there's a (badom-tish) commodity for that - MUI:PSI, it can do just this, and I am sure there are other pub screen handlers that do the same. Should the OS come with a pubscreen commodity handler built in? In my view - Absolutely! But certain OS developers didn't think it's worth wasting time on, as there are already third party tools for this.
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS