News of Free 060 Like Apollo Core License

[kolla]

??

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We#The_patronizing_.22we.22

[kolla]

@Chucky:  

If you were to implement the integer CPU, an FPU, an MMU, and the chipset, in which order would you tackle those?  

First CPU and MMU - the MMU is the uttermost important, now you can already attract an audience and developers far beyond the Amiga realms.

Then FPU.

Make sure this runs really well, and gets tested and used with a range of operating systems and hardware. Not just Amiga.

Amiga chipset is already implemented several times, so I would initially just use what exists, Minimig AGA. Other platforms use their chipsets, or implement them on FPGA as well.

Then have the "Amiga team" extend and improve AGA core, and the "CPU core" team add extra features to CPU, FPU, MMU, whatever, _in communication and agreement_ with core developers of all the involved 68k platforms.

Well - this is how I would have done it.

[kolla]

He moans that his Vampires are not big enough to include all features in hardware

But it is.

[kolla]

The next update will give you an FPU that is faster than any 882 alongside the integer unit that is faster than any 060. I can't see what's the rip-off here.

Let's see what the faq says these days....

Do Vampires have a FPU ?
A: The implemented FPU is a 68060 compatible FPU. FPU is currently disabled and is a WIP.

Various teases and hints have said "HW 040/060 FPU", but I guess this is not for 2.7 then.

[kolla]

It is for the V4 vampire, which will likely release before Gold 3 hits.

The V2 obviously can't fully implement it.

The FAQ entry was there long before V4 was announced, and it does not say anything about this being V4 specific, it says "Vampires", as in plural, which certainly suggests more than just V4.

[kolla]

All the problems with the Apollo Core project have their base in one thing:

BAD COMMUNICATION!!!

And there is no "language barrier" to hide behind.

[kolla]

So - V2 - what is the reality?

The teaser videos showing V2 with "hardware 040/060 FPU" running Quake etc, is that not the kind of FPU that supposedly does not fit into the V2 FPGA?

[kolla]

It doesn't fit, there is a small subset of FPU functions on Hardware the rest is being done by an 68080 optimized version FEMU made by Jari.

So "hardware 040/060 FPU" is not true, and it really relies on FEMU.

FEMU is by default in the provided Kickstart? Can it be disabled and enabled by the user?

What does this mean for AROS and EmuTOS? Would they require their own emulation implementations?

[kolla]

Of course, they're a small team focused on getting things done and updating pages and wikis takes time out of development work.

I get the impression that there are several people in the team who are more or less twiddling their thumbs or "fighting for the cause" on various forums, while the experts are busy. It should be a priority to keep the hyperbole down, but I understand it is tough when chief architect is Mr Hyperbole himself, who apparently at whim announce new features on the forum, causing confusion, expectations, hyperbole, eye rolling... in one word - ATTENTION.

[kolla]

it might be that MMU attracts users outside amiga community but you miss the point that the apollo/vampire was designed for amiga users (or former amiga users) primarly

Really?

It took literally YEARS before even the word "Amiga" came up on the apollo-core site.

[kolla]

You didn't read or understand what I wrote above. Femu will become part of the core and be present from power-on/reset. This is one important advantage over 060.library and does not depend on the OS.

So it is an emulator, a piece of software running out of the reach for the operating systems, hosted by the Apollo Core.
What other pieces of software are running out of reach for the operating system?

[kolla]

Look at the intel management engine ?, you are running full blown minix os inside your chip set and nobody even cared or realized it. And this on "real chips" like you guys love.

Ah, you followed the links I gave on the Amiga Facegroup page earlier today perhaps? Good

I do not love Intel chips, and I do not love proprietary management systems. At all.

[kolla]

@Tellurium

Yes, I am aware of that - it is fairly well described and documented, and what isn't, is to be picked apart by various communities. Is that what we want in Amiga land too?

Is it wrong to raise questions about what takes place in the core? All experience says that provoking questioning is the only way to get solid information.

[kolla]

What's with all the merely curious people who've made accounts just to... not answer any questions nor bring any more information to the table?

[kolla]

Asking and not trusting is not a good pattern.

Actually it is. Do you prefer trusting, no questions asked?

Whatever the Apollo crew would say, could ever change your mind?

Change my mind about what?

If I were in a similar position as you are now, I’d get AsmOne with its interactive mode and type small snippets to Unit test if output corresponds to what I expect. AMMX or whatever they call the extension cannot activate if you don’t ping it, so in case you don’t need it, it would be just like empty space.

So you are telling me to only test the part of the core that is designed to be compatible, and to stay away from the rest?

It’s a general purpose execution unit in a cheap and dirty low end fpga. I Do not expect it to have an AI aware Bitcoin wallet sniffer within.

I think it is rather funny that you bring up Bitcoin in this, considering that crypto currency was such a re-occuring topic on the IRC channel. Anyways, that's totally beside the point. I asked if there are other pieces of software running behind the scenes, that should be easy to answer.

[kolla]

A whole range of plugins for AdPro, SView, ImageFx etc, various ixemul versions and everything that depend on them, like sox, lame, ffmpeg etc.