How to make iconx script file minimize

[kolla]

What is the advantage of using project icon type with IconX as default tool vs. using tool icon type, setting S flag and set CLI as tooltype (or "Start from Shell" in 3.9 info window)?

[kolla]

I think the main reason people prefer KingCON over ViNCEd is the complexity of ViNCEd, it is rather daunting, heck, even spelling it right is TRicKy It has so many features that one can really wonder what kind of situations one would have need for it all. And yet, it does not have tabs (which everyone wants), and it struggles if used as terminal emulator.

[kolla]

The S flag can easily be lost when you copy the file to another location using the wrong options. For example the Copy CLI command will remove the flag if you forget to say CLONE.

Yeah, but that is really a "meta problem", and in my eyes a flaw with the copy command, I always use clone and cannot fathom why that is not default. :hammer:

I was more curious in direct benefits/caveats with using one or the other.

[kolla]

I wonder what the problem with the default configuration is. Just keep it, you're fine.

Sure - but it is a rather intrusive and... in lack of better word, "bloated" option when all you want is iconify and tab completion.

Does Kingkong have Tabs? I guess not. Adding Tabs would be another project, but not right now please. It has virtual consoles and screens, though.

Yes, and I suspect most people do not know it is there and certainly not how to set it up and use it, as I said, the configuration of ViNCEd is quite daunting. KingCON also does not have tabs, but the handler is half the size of vnc.library, and can even be put in kickstart and work when booting without startup-sequence (Yes, I know... copied to RAM before execution, still useful though.)

Huh, what? Unlike all the other terminals, ViNCEd includes a VT100 and VT220 emulation, and not only CBMs own interpretation of the CSI sequences (which is really quite a bit off).

Well, the world has moved on, vt220 is not exactly the benchmark for a good terminal anymore. ViNCEd has ANSI terminal with colours, which is nice, but 16 colours ANSI terminal is also kinda "old school" in these days of true colour xterm and consoles. There is option for tmux to deal with 256-colour terminal, but not for only 16 colours, for example. In my experience, both Term and AmTelnet (that is, the terminal MUI class) are better choices for simple terminal emulation, and it always helps to use GNU screen in the other end, less need for ctrl+L frenzy. And, then there is the question of charset handling.

Actually, I used ViNCEd quite a while as ssh terminal to run emacs over a dial-in connection at our university.

That may be why. emacs lives in its own "retro reality" and (like vt220), should not be the benchmark for whether a terminal emulation works or not. But we are touching the main topic here - why should the console handler on the Amiga even have terminal emulation at all?

Anyways, I do think ViNCEd is awesome, but I also see why people rather use KingCON (Kingkong is something else). It would be nice with a new console handler that implements the basics like KingCON does, but in a more system friendly way. If someone with the know-how could make a video tutorial for all the stuff one can accomplish with ViNCEd, I would love watching and learning

[kolla]

OK, since I only get answers that for me are irrelevant and not really what I am asking about, I assume then that there is no difference between using IconX and setting S bit and tooltype CLI

I could imagine that IconX for example could read more tooltypes, there are IconX "clones" that can do a lot more.

[kolla]

I could imagine that IconX for example could read more tooltypes, there are IconX "clones" that can do a lot more.

Indeed, after playing around with it some more, IconX allows tooltypes that are otherwise ignored, I see WINDOW, STACK, USERSHELL, WAIT and DELAY. When launched using just S-bit, the tooltypes CLI and DONOTWAIT are used, and I suspect STACK too.

[kolla]

If this is all you want, why do you then look into the preferences at all? I'm sorry, I do not get this argument. If you don't need an option, don't touch it. It's just sitting there to be used in case, that's all.

It's like getting a 7 course meal when all you wanted was a cup of coffee.

You use the installer. Isn't that obvious? It will install the default configuration which is what most people will likely be happy about.

If "most people" were happy with this, "most people" would not be using KingCON. However, most people are using KingCON, so I presume "most people" are not so happy with VNC. Why is that? Well, I have mentioned quite a few reasons.

Putting "something in Kickstart" is not a recommended option for third party components anyhow. Actually, nothing but the absolute minimum on components should go there. Did you say "bloat?" There you go.[/QUTE]

This is about functionality - by putting KingCON in kickstart, tab completion and various other features are there also when booting without startup-sequence, or when booting to other filesystems (floppies, games etc).

Is there any way to have ViNCEd available like this? I think not.

And the benchmark is? If you look into the Linux world, the terminals there all support not much more than vt220, in certain variants. xterm has a couple of extras (ViNCEd supports them), and mrxvt, too. Then we have gterm, ... you name it. There is not much more.

mrxvt is ancient software now and gterm is also not really a good terminal

Anyways, there is much more. xterm also does vt420 and has its own extensions, such as the color255. If you look at modern implementations such as iTerm on and others for Linux and BSD etc, that can also output graphics directly to the terminal window.

Actually, if you look at xterm, it supports... 16 colors. Obviously, because that is all ANSI CSI sequences can do. I do not know about xterm, but ViNCEd allows you to change these colors, not only at the preferences, but also by CSI sequences. Search for "CSI V" in the fine manual. This is, of course, a non-standard extension because VT220 has nothing to say about true color terminals.

http://www.mudpedia.org/mediawiki/index.php/Xterm_256_colors

Hardly an ANSI terminal then.

As I keep saying - the world moves on!

The Amiga charset has ever been ISO-Latin-1. Changing that is a daunting task simply because the whole rendering engine, graphics upwards, only supports 256 glyphs in a character set.

It has already been done. MorphOS's terminal MUI class does this.

Because otherwise tools like the screen editor "ed" would not work?

Let me just shortly counter this by saying "most users do not use ed"

The choice to include a terminal was made at Tripos terms, where the user frontend of choice was (still) the terminal. Once this was set, it became necessary to include a "terminal emulation" in the system, which is what CON: does, actually in the given implementation as a thin interface around console (which is non-tripos, but tripos had something similar).

Yes - but there is a difference between "native terminal" and fully emulating ANSI vt220, vt420, xterm etc.

The problem here is that you confuse a bit the role of the console.device (which is one thing) with that of the console handler (CON:) which is another thing. Kingkong just hacks up the console.device, probably causing problems should it ever be upgraded. CON: is a thin layer around console. So was Newcon. ViNCEd is a self-contained handler, it does not (really) use the console.device at all.

Now I understand you are writing "Kingkong" just to mock it. How quaint.

"Most users" (and this time I include myself) do not really care much about _how_ the console/terminal/shell window is implemented. "Most users" do not even use shell much (though some of us do).

How to use ViNCEd? Do you really need a video tutorial how to run the installer? That's really all, nothing more needed.

Tutorial about how to use more advanced features to empower users. Isn't that what software is all about?

Don't make things more complicated than they are.

I have a feeling that this is exactly why ViNCEd is not so popular

Features wanted by "most users" for the console, easily accessible from a menu..
* iconify
* jump screen
* tabs
* switch to full screen mode and back
* vertical and horisontal split terminal
* prefs to configure profiles with colours, programs to start etc.

And yes - the shell should provide the tab completion.

Anyways - all these are great reasons to rather use AROS :laughing: