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Author Topic: GPL RTG driver information available  (Read 15624 times)

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Offline kolla

Re: GPL RTG driver information available
« on: May 16, 2016, 11:19:12 AM »
Just ignore Thomas, really. He is not a lawyer, and he is not paying attention to what European courts have concluded on this, even in his own country.
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
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A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline kolla

Re: GPL RTG driver information available
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2016, 11:22:58 AM »
Quick sumup: APIs are not protected by copyrights - code is.
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
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A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline kolla

Re: GPL RTG driver information available
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2016, 03:06:37 PM »
That's not in Europe, so what is your point?

I too can toss around links...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2012-05-02/copyright-can-t-block-software-reverse-engineering-court
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline kolla

Re: GPL RTG driver information available
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2016, 03:35:41 PM »
Quote from: Thomas Richter;808628
You're using a closed API, an API that requires licensing.


No license is needed for guessing internal APIs, and I would not call them closed as it is becoming more and more "common knowledge" how the APIs work. You cannot force people to unlearn what they have discovered.

The P96 business model is whack, even Apple has not managed to prevent internal APIs from "leaking" (f.lux, total finder etc).
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline kolla

Re: GPL RTG driver information available
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2016, 05:09:01 PM »
Quote from: Thomas Richter;808655
Well, let's see what you would have suggested to get some money in return for the development of P96.


I have several times outlined ways for P96 to provide steady income - it's all about having _users_ pay according to ability and free will. Make it open source and even I am willing to pay. People are used to paying tiny monthly contributions for all kinds of things, why not P96. Funding for software development is a heck lot easier than selling APIs under freedom-limiting NDAs, even real world corporations know this by now.

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Oh yes, I forgot. Let norwegian tax payers pay for it....


Yes, I have a real life job providing services that the public and society benefit greatly from, even foreigners visiting and studying here. Amiga is hobby, as it is for any sane person. Do you have a problem with that? Today we celebrate our constitution, a celebration that for some reason was illegal for 5 years last century. Who are you to mock my work and what Norwegians decide to use tax money on?
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline kolla

Re: GPL RTG driver information available
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2016, 07:54:45 PM »
Quote from: Thomas Richter;808669
Given the tyical willingness to pay in Amiga Land, I can ensure you that this generated no self-sustaining income.

People are willing to pay if the offer makes sense. Self-sustaining income? See "whack".

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No, the part I have problems with is that you call something "Whack" that is beyond your limited understanding.

Let me present the business of selling RTG to Amiga for some of my investor friends and see what they think, I am pretty confident the word "whack" will be used. I mean seriously - RTG for an extremely marginal computer system, that has zero value outside of a small group of enthusiasts, and no value at all for retro nostalgics who mostly just want to play games on native chipset. If you think this concept of business has any validity, you are delusional.

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Open Source might be all nice and certainly justified - specifically if the work is paid for by the tax payer. But I see also reasons why people choose (did and still do) other models. Not everything that is beyond Open Source is "whack".


And I did not say so, I said the P96 business model is whack, because it is mostly based on (false) assumptions about copyrights and intellectual property laws. There are plenty of cases when closed source is ok, for limited time and usecases, things have limited lifespan, systems that don't have users... once you offer code to the public, as part of an ecosystem, a "standard", something you know will be of general interest of plenty of users and developers (relatively), you damn well should pick an open source model for your product. Or be a huge software company that can guarantee a path forward.

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People make choices for reasons. Probably for reasons you do not know, you probably cannot follow, or you do not or do not want to understand.

Yeah, people make idiotic choices all the time, nothing new about that, and I fully understand how it happens. What I fail to understand is how people insist on clinging to a failed and flawed idea for so long. I can only guess it is because admitting failure is too difficult, or because they somehow find satisfaction with the status quo and enjoy their position.

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*That*, Kolla, is the problem I have with you. Closed-minded, unable to see beyond limits of your own experience.

I am glad you have problems with me, your views and understanding of how to successfully run an IT enterprise is stuck in the past, discussing with you is like diving into usenet groups from the mid 90ies. Call me narrow minded all you like, coming from someone with your views, that's almost a compliment.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2016, 08:01:12 PM by kolla »
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline kolla

Re: GPL RTG driver information available
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2016, 09:29:46 PM »
A 16 year standstill of empty threats and no "official" development whatsoever. Something that has changed is that paying for shareware got a heck lot easier and we users for most part has gotten wealthier.
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline kolla

Re: GPL RTG driver information available
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2016, 10:51:30 PM »
What was "legal" status of P96 drivers in Amithlon/AmigaOSXL?
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline kolla

Re: GPL RTG driver information available
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2016, 11:22:21 PM »
We are well outside US jurisdiction here.
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline kolla

Re: GPL RTG driver information available
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2016, 10:57:59 AM »
Amazing to come back from a few days with Real Life to find all this "fresh" drama :)
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS