OS3.9 BB3+4 V1.2 Available

[kolla]

Probably to add to the above: How exactly should I convince someone to invest money into the Amiga community if the community rather prefers to use stolen software? As this thread demonstrates?

The  community prefers to use legal software, but circumstances makes it pretty damn hard, if not impossible to have any kind of progress "legally". THAT is the situation, and has been for more than 15 years. Why do you say that you are the one who must convince someone to invest in the community? I rather you don't, as your views are clearly skewed and biased towards towards a model that... I suppose... would give you more control, or something. I don't know.

As I said, threads like this, with download links like this, are *not exactly helpful*.

They are a consequence of the everlasting status quo. Again, people are dying. People hope to experience _something_ before they hit the grave, when you get old, respect for silly stuff like copyright infringements of ancient software becomes something you do care much about... what could possibly happen, at worst some besserwisser German on some random web-board will yell at you. No big deal.

How can one expect that the people that applaud to uploaded stolen software will, in the end, pay for an open source software?

For so many of us, it would rectify the big mistake it was that it did not happen already way back right after CBM folded. And today, people much more understand that even open source software needs funding, but at least, as long as a community exists, open source software does not just straight out die. Closed source software on the other hand, comes with death warranty.

This somehow does not fit together. Anyhow, try to convince me that you're willing to pay for Open Source. As said, I do not mind *how* AmigaOs is distributed. If it works, it works.

Again, look at Haiku, look at ElementaryOS, look at ReactOS etc... even AROS. How much revenue can you generate by using the community in a positive way, rather than treating the community as potential criminals? Which is exactly what you are illustrating so magnificently on this thread, and other threads.

[kolla]

The ICO format is the standard for a web site's "favicon," so it is at least still relevant in 2016.

Fair point, though you can specify different format using MIME types, very often it would be PNG that is actually used.

I guess that depends.  'round here you pay a lot of court fees and costs as part of your filings and proceedings.

Of course, but the courts are not private enterprises with expected profits.

[kolla]

Nice to see everyone agree.. uhm.. about what I want.

[kolla]

Of course. Enterprises need stable systems. Unlike the typical experimental software that is created by the Linux hackers.

Oh yes, those "hackers", not really developers are they.

Like me. Linux developers have, typically, not the funding to run testing, or user studies, or...

You are not a Linux developer just because you were hacking around on some ancient graphics drivers that no-one really gives a damn about. Your code was not important. You code broke. Your code is not maintained. Your code will be removed. This is part of the process.

Distributions have, to some degree. So they necessarily have a more conservative approach.

They have whatever approach the distro aims for.

Progress needs a direction to progress to. No, I do not want to keep the status quo, where AmigaOs 3.x is only seen as an annoying old-time competition that blocks the income stream to "more modern" variants that were supposed to be sponsored by "designed to be outdated" PPC hardware.

Very few see OS 3.x that way, I think it must only be Hyperion. The rest of us sees Amiga OS 3.x for what it is, that weird and messy, yet awesome little OS that we can run on ancient hardware, in emulators, on FPGA systems, and pretty much anywhere these days. Too bad it is crippled not only be legacy, but also by being hostage in a legal catch 22 that very few seem to have the nerve to break it free from. At least not in our lifetime.

And AROS will fail

This should be a breaking news item in itself

Famous Amiga Developer announces that AROS will fail!! Because... open source is bad! M'key?!

for exactly the same reason Linux has not managed to become a main-stream Os for end users...

Really now. Please take a look around, how many linux systems can you count in immediate proximity? Do you have a "smart TV" running Android? Do you have an Android phone or tablet? What does your home wifi spot and home router run? Do you have a NAS, what OS did it come preinstalled with? What OS does this very website run on? What OS is used to host the vast percentage of cloud services we use every day? What OS does Facebook run on? How about ChromeOS devices? How about CoreOS? Why are Microsoft implementing Linux compatibility layers in Windows?

So maybe this will not be the "year of the Linux desktop", again, but why is it at all relevant - Linux is pretty much everywhere, providing experiences to end users.

AROS is most often hosted on Linux.
FriendUP runs mostly on top of Linux.
AEON supports development of Linux for AmigaOne systems.
Linux/m68k is still developed and evolving.
Amithlon was running on Linux.
ARIX is/will be running on Lunux.

These are just projects in our own "amiga realm".

Illegal stays illegal, no matter what.

Not at all. Laws change over time. You are German, you should know, sigh.

Just illegal source code, indeed, which leads to illegal software, once compiled. What else could it be? Do you seriously believe it becomes magically legal by somebody touching it or compiling it?

Again, not at all. As anyone in this industry should know by now, this is a gray zone legally. You seriously should read yourself up on how copyright infringements are dealt with when they land in courts. Some hints for you, it is not regarded as "theft", nor is it regarded as "criminal offense".

Anyhow - whether you say "illegal", it does't really matter, you, Cloanto, Hyperion etc can scream as high as you can - it is too late.

Which brings us back to - Now what?!

[kolla]

Hypocrisy is sometimes justifiable

Interesting. You obviously mean in cases like this thread, since that is the topic right here and now. I disagree with you. I think Thomas disagrees with you too But he is more interested in bashing me with rhetorics about how much open source sucks and how OS 3.x is not and never will be open source, even though the sources now are out in the ... open.

he just doesn't like it because he wants everything free legally and will make any argument (not that this will ever work).

What I want is not relevant. Neither is it relevant what Thomas wants. Or what you want. What matters is the general consensus of the greater society. So, today it is illegal, here and there. Kinda like drinking beer in the streets is illegal here and there. No, actually, less bad, since drinking beer in public is more likely considered a criminal offense, while copyright infringement is considered more like a breach of contract and hence a civil case where someone has to be sued and convicted. Something that happens all too often. Especially in the international software industry. Of which Amiga is part of. Not. :laughing:

[kolla]

How much money has OS4 made so far?

How do MorphOS, AROS and OS4 compare in terms of development practice and development speed?

[kolla]

I maybe misunderstand here but "open source" (whichever flavour) is all about copyrights.

The various licenses (which ever flavour) are all about copyrights. There is open source software and there is free software, some open source software is free software, some is not. And then there is "free" as in gratis vs "free" as in libre. Some institutions claim definition on the various terms, for example OSI (The Open Source Initiative) and FSF (Free Software Foundation), but the concepts are older than these organizations.

Here is a confusing example, just randomly picked...  

http://aminet.net/package/util/wb/BenchTrash

"it's 100% free". I wonder if FSF and Thomas use the same definition of "free"

[kolla]

So what exactly is confusing about it?  

Just because the FSF is on a political mission, it does not mean that everybody has to agree with them. If you get something for free, it means that you do not have to pay for it.

I am glad to see you agree that just because some organization is on a political mission, it does not mean that everybody has to agree with them. This is just as valid with "open source software" as it is for "free software"

Pretty regular use of the English word "free".

There is a slight distinction in meaning between "it's 100% free" and "it's 100%  _for_ free".

[kolla]

But no, the copyrights are not lost, the sources are not lost, and I really *do* have some hope that it should be possible to renovate 3.9 a bit. What triggered all this was of course the arrival of new hardware.

What hardware would that be? I guess your plan is to somehow "lock" newer AmigaOS 3.x to the Apollo core?

[kolla]

No. What actually is wrong with you? Just because I don't agree with your political mission, do you believe that I'm an "evil capitalist" that exploits poor harmless Amiga users?

Those are your words. What new hardware?

Kolla, you're just naive. I'm trying to find workable ways to drive a new development, and you have nothing better to do than to organize a political uproar instead of finding a pragmatic solution for the problem at hand.

Political uproar? You give me way too much credit :laughing:

[kolla]

Just to make view clear:
* I believe people are willing for OS3.x upgrades
* I belive _even more_ people are willing to pay for having OS3.x open sourced, and by having a donation button. I would personally happily donate monthly, like I support many other projects. I would definitely not do this with a closed source OS3.x continued development. That is the difference between _supporting development_ and _buying a product_.
* I believe it will be difficult to find enough people willing to develop OS3.x much further as a closed source project.

[kolla]

So, no, this is not helping. If you ever want to see new software for classic systems, stop spreading illegal software, or for god's sake, at least stop advocating this activity as "O.K.". It is not "O.K.".

Show some credibility by shutting down "the Zone" on EAB. :laughing: