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Author Topic: [UserReview] Vampire V2-128 received and it's just pure p0rn.  (Read 108490 times)

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Offline kolla

Re: [UserReview] Vampire V2-128 received and it's just pure p0rn.
« Reply #89 from previous page: February 21, 2018, 01:59:42 PM »
Quote from: TrashyMG;836391
Gunnar is also really sarcastic at times, especially on IRC.


It was not sarcasm. It was frustration over the quality of work of those who had the task of implementing the FPU, as he realised he would have to to it himself, something he had no interest in. He would much rather work on the shiny new FPU on the V4. There was quite a raging discussion about this within the team at the time, though they now pretend it never happened.
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Offline kolla

Re: [UserReview] Vampire V2-128 received and it's just pure p0rn.
« Reply #90 on: February 21, 2018, 02:01:30 PM »
Quote from: TrashyMG;836393
No SAGA will be on both, AGA features will be on Gold 3.

As SAGA is supposed to be a superset of AGA (Super AGA), this makes zero sense.

Sounds like you confuse SAGA with P96 RTG support, which as "working title" goes by the name "SAGA".

Quote
It's a real FPU solution, no software emulation. Stop spreading you don't know.

So full support for _all_ 68882 instructions in the FPGA? That is news, as Gunnar has previously said it will only support those of 040 and 060.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2018, 02:03:52 PM by kolla »
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Offline kolla

Re: [UserReview] Vampire V2-128 received and it's just pure p0rn.
« Reply #91 on: February 21, 2018, 02:14:33 PM »
Quote from: TrashyMG;836396
For reasons I don't understand SAGA was chosen for the name of the RTG graphics that come out of the HDMI interface. Gold 2.7 will still have that with ECS/OCS still coming out of the RGB port.

So nothing new, just at last an FPU of some sort.
So you have no information on whether it will fully implement all 68882 instructions and features on the FPGA, or whether it trap those that are not implemented and feed them to a software emulator, like is done with 68040 and 68060 using their respective libraries? There was such a hoopla over how utterly crap solution it was to need such libraries, yet from what I can see, they're doing the exact same thing themselves.

Quote
Gold 3 will introduce actual AGA support and the new Pamela sound chip over HDMI.

So Gold3 will introduce actual SAGA.

I guess there isn't any news after all then, just confusion and hyperbole (AMMX, AMMX2, AMMX2 + undocumented functions... which never seems to settle).
« Last Edit: February 21, 2018, 02:18:16 PM by kolla »
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Offline kolla

Re: [UserReview] Vampire V2-128 received and it's just pure p0rn.
« Reply #92 on: February 22, 2018, 12:05:08 AM »
I'm not the one forgetting here, rewriting history is not the right thing to do, even if you do it "politely". One year ago, there already was FPU for V2, it just needed some "testing". I suppose the testing didn't go so well, because it didn't take so long before it was clear that the very much hyped FPU would not be... and anyways, Amiga don't need FPU, does it. So started the bashing of everyone expressing needs for FPU began. Then Gunnar came with AMMX, as a sort of "look, this is much more useful!". But there were people also inside the team that were unhappy about the lack of FPU, and there was a rather harsh discussion over it. Gunnar decided if he was to implement an FPU it would be the most awesome FPU ever, and it would require bigger FPGA, V2 be damned, let there be V3... heck V4! V2 owners can use some software emulation if they need FPU so badly. And this was the sentiment till Jari came with FEMU, pretty much proving that software FPU emulation is not desired. FEMU is far from perfect, and it was demonstrated how both productivity software and demos did not run well enough. So again focus was changed, to improve FEMU. And this has now been going on since last summer, and had CLEARLY been a priority. Despite previous rantings about how useless FPU is on Amiga and what idiots people are for wanting it. Jari says quite openly that after his initial 0.10 release, he's not really been the one working on improving it. Over time, more and more went into the FPGA, and from what I understand, it's currently on pair with 040. Meaning that there's still a bit of software emulation needed, which is fine. What's less fine is that this software is running outside the operating system, meaning noone else but Apollo Team can ever fix bugs or do improvements. But I suppose, like everything else Apollo Core, the code is perfect already. Like those libraries Phase5 put into ROM on their CPU boards. Bad for Phase5 and others, but good for Apollo Core. Always.

Imagine if Jari had not made FEMU, and where the project would have been now, what the outspoken sentiment would have been.

As for SAGA, it was announced that the SAGA FPGA core would be open source, but now it's not when clear what SAGA is, and half of the time it just refers to P96 support. Originally, SAGA was the Super AGA chipset that was to take over from the AGA Amiga chipset, being a superset of AGA. Pamela is the audio part of SAGA, taking over for Paula.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2018, 12:09:17 AM by kolla »
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Offline kolla

Re: [UserReview] Vampire V2-128 received and it's just pure p0rn.
« Reply #93 on: February 22, 2018, 12:13:55 AM »
Quote from: Karlos;836414
Some sort of trap and patch like oxypatxher/cyber patcher would be a nice way to get performant support for old 882 dependent code. It was good enough for the 040/060 after all.


No, this is not good enough. No patcher or trapper can be used, as this is taken care of outside the scope and reach of the hardware available from the operating system and any software running on the operating system.
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Offline kolla

Re: [UserReview] Vampire V2-128 received and it's just pure p0rn.
« Reply #94 on: February 22, 2018, 06:43:42 AM »
Nothing evil going on, stop with the hyperbole. I was there on irc when all this went down, I still have the logs.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2018, 06:45:51 AM by kolla »
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Offline kolla

Re: [UserReview] Vampire V2-128 received and it's just pure p0rn.
« Reply #95 on: February 23, 2018, 10:47:58 AM »
Firstly, IRC logs come for free when you use irc services like znc etc, not like I hang out logging manually using amirc or whatever.

Secondly, I have nothing against software emulation of 68882 instructions, that's after all what we have been doing since 040 and it works well.

Apollo Core has FPU like 68040 and hence need a similar solution as 040 and 060. No problem.

But then, do not run around claiming that NO software emulation is taking place with Apollo Core on V2, because that is simply not true. Unless 68882 is actually implemented, which would be worthy a news item.

Lastly, the software emulation of 68882 instructions are not running within the scope and and reach of the operating system. It's not a task of AmigaOS. It's not visible for any OS running on the Vampire card. If you use old software to try detecting what CPU there is, it may very well say it's a 040+882. Now, one can question wether it is a good or bad thing to have emulation software - or any software at all - running outside, or "under" the operating system. Some would say that is crawling towards using a hypervisor. There has also been talks about hyperthreading. Well, AmigaOS cannot do it by itself, so something else would be needed to do the scheduling etc of "out of bounds" threaded processes. Again, it is tempting to call that a hypervisor. Is this good or bad? I don't care, it just is what it is. I am skeptical though, as all experience says that running software outside the reach of the operating system complicates a number of things.

As for MMU, it is already there, it just isn't compatible with existing software and operating systems, which is a case of lost opportunities for Apollo Core. Not for me, but for Apollo Core and for Gunnar. His problem. Not mine. The MMU of the Apollo Core is used on the Vampire cards, is (among other things) used for mapping memory, so that AmigaOS, drivers and software can run happily. Nice solution and works great. Also it has been mentioned that MMU is involved in for example speed up IDE and do various DMA tricks. Also cool. All this happens outside the scope of the operating system. There are a few libraries and resources giving limited access to the Apollo Core MMU, like softkicking for example. But again, it is starting to look like some hypervisor model.

Social aspect of the Apollp Team, who have more speaks persons than they have people doing actual work, and who contradict each other and Gunnar half of the time... yeah, it speaks to itself. Grong, no testing? Apollo-accelerators.com says/said something else, and luckily there is wayback machine.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2018, 11:00:40 AM by kolla »
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Offline kolla

Re: [UserReview] Vampire V2-128 received and it's just pure p0rn.
« Reply #96 on: February 24, 2018, 11:28:58 AM »
Quote from: ferrellsl;836554
This must be another one of Kolla's duplicate accounts.  He had a couple of them on the Apollo/Vampire forums too....

That is a straight out lie, I only had one account and it was closed down.

If you think I have several, I challenge you to point them out and get the team to provide the evidence. And retract your statement, or else, I report you for slander.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2018, 11:47:49 AM by kolla »
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Offline kolla

Re: [UserReview] Vampire V2-128 received and it's just pure p0rn.
« Reply #97 on: February 25, 2018, 04:00:14 PM »
Quote from: grond;836482
I guess you are referring to the tests of the individual FPU instructions. This is not testing the FPU.

October 4. 2016:
Quote
2016-10-04 [16:42:02] We said we our FPU is in testing - correct
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Offline kolla

Re: [UserReview] Vampire V2-128 received and it's just pure p0rn.
« Reply #98 on: February 25, 2018, 11:33:27 PM »
Quote from: Djole;836657
http://forum.apollo-accelerators.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1867

New info.... for the guys stuck in 2016 like kolla


"new info" is a constant with this project, very often contradictory and misleading info.

Well, at least one can now point at something when minions are screaming that there is no software emulation taking place. Also I like that it says "host memory", one can then speculate what is meant with "host".
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Offline kolla

Re: [UserReview] Vampire V2-128 received and it's just pure p0rn.
« Reply #99 on: February 26, 2018, 02:54:36 PM »
So, I figure it is time to go back to what started all this hoopla the last few days....

Quote from: TrashyMG;836393
No SAGA will be on both, AGA features will be on Gold 3.

It's a real FPU solution, no software emulation. Stop spreading %&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@! you don't know.

So who was spreading whatever you don't know?
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Offline kolla

Re: [UserReview] Vampire V2-128 received and it's just pure p0rn.
« Reply #100 on: February 26, 2018, 06:24:24 PM »
Quote from: OlafS3;836677
@psxphill

Kolla bought it because he expected it more or less as a affordable accelerator with more ram and now realizing that this is not the goal he uses most of his time to badmouth the people behind.

Not true.
* It was never a question of "affordable" for me.
* I already had/have classic systems with more RAM (a lot more)
* I had questions about software compatibility which were consequently refused to be properly answered (or as you say, "bad mouthing")
* I was told "you don't even have a vampire, so what do you know - STFU!"
* I was told that once I had a card and could witness with my own eyes, all my doubts and concerns would vanish. They didn't, rather they confirmed them.
* and maybe most important - when I ordered them, I was at a beer festival.

I had hopes for something that would make the A600 worth while as an animation, audio and music "retro workstation", using old and new Amiga software for music, audio, graphics and animation. This includes using various audio transformation tools, of which quite a lot require, or greatly benefit from FPU. Likewise for graphics.

What really made my "go on a mission" so to speak, was the words and attitudes central people in team used about other hardware manufacturers, and about certain well known developers. The "idiots" and the "enemies".
« Last Edit: February 26, 2018, 06:29:47 PM by kolla »
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Offline kolla

Re: [UserReview] Vampire V2-128 received and it's just pure p0rn.
« Reply #101 on: February 27, 2018, 05:52:52 PM »
Quote from: AmigaClassicRule;836585
First of all there is nothing in vampire remotely emulating anything.

Maybe time to rephrase?
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Offline kolla

Re: [UserReview] Vampire V2-128 received and it's just pure p0rn.
« Reply #102 on: February 27, 2018, 05:57:34 PM »
Quote from: TrashyMG;836697
We both are, you more so. For me it's ignorance, for you it's a mis-information and smear campaign.


Maybe if you were less ignorant, you'd realize that this is not a smear campaign and more an attempt to open the eyes of people. As I have mentioned quite a few times, I encourage everyone, as many as possible, to buy vampire cards.
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Offline kolla

Re: [UserReview] Vampire V2-128 received and it's just pure p0rn.
« Reply #103 on: February 27, 2018, 06:03:25 PM »
Quote from: ferrellsl;836696
Wow, you're a classic case of obsessive compulsive disorder compounded by paranoia.  Seek some professional help for everyone's sake, including your own.

I am perfectly fine thanks, how about you? And how's it going in your search for my alter egos over at apollo-core forums? How many accounts do I have? Double digits? Maybe ask Gunnar for help.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2018, 06:07:38 PM by kolla »
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Offline kolla

Re: [UserReview] Vampire V2-128 received and it's just pure p0rn.
« Reply #104 on: February 28, 2018, 01:28:29 PM »
Quote from: ferrellsl;836742
The only person here needing help is you.


So please help me - start by finding those accounts you accuse me of having.
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