[UserReview] Vampire V2-128 received and it's just pure p0rn.

[kolla]

@kolla

Regardless of knowledge of MMU, Ive gotten the impression that Apollo-Team is focusing on other aspects of the core/FPGA at the moment.

Sure, they never really cared much about MMU.

There is a old thread regarding MMU on EAB with Toni weighting in;

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=44003

And again, if people want to run AOS on Vampire, noone is stopping them, now or in the future.

Even if the Vampire requires a special kickstart on board, with patched/replaced exec.library?

BTW - that eab-thread is way old, Toni may have other opinions today

[kolla]

So how about the licensing issue with "Workbench kickstarts" on apollo core?

Does the apollo core need a patched exec.library or not?

[kolla]

No, none of them are legitimate, unfortunately. Gunnar decided against licensing P96, which means that the drivers cannot be used on solid grounds.

How is an AROS based driver not legitimate?

EDIT - oh, it is still P96? Crap

How can it be P96 driver if it is based on AROS? AFAIK AROS does not use P96, but their own RTG based around CGfx3.

[kolla]

No matter what the legal status is, P96 is crap and should be avoided.

[kolla]

This is something the AROS team should better check with the CGfx authors.

Oh my, what rock have you been living under?

As you perhaps know, CGfx merged into MorphOS around 15 years ago, along with MUI etc. MorphOS and AROS have done what "the people with the name" (your side, I presume) never managed - cooperate! The MorphOS team and AROS team have worked together on many things, shell and CLI commands and APIs. The CGfx thing was agreed upon a long time ago.

[kolla]

How do you come to this conclusion? Or is it just the typical prejudice from your side?

No, I find the P96 software cumbersome. I always chose CGfx when I can, simply because it is less ridden with annoying bugs and has Prefs interface I can relate to.

[kolla]

I don't *care* for AROS or CGfx. That's why I said "they probably need to check with the CGfx authors". Is this a wrong statement? No.

Yep, it is quite obvious you only bother to have bare minimum knowledge about stuff you do not care about. Linux for example.

Wait a minute! Just because my software isn't your flavour of "free", you call that "lack of cooperation"? Actually, there have been quite some cooperation in the Amiga land from my side. Look at MuForce, for example. This thing wouldn't have come to life without cooperation with Mike Sinz.

What I mean was that "the owners of the name", that be anyone involved with anything officially named "Amiga" has denied to cooperate with the other "camps", AROS and MorphOS. Except for shell and layers.library, I do not "care" about your software

Os 3.9 wouldn't have come to life without cooperation with Haage and Partner, and people like Olaf Barthel.

And the colour wheel gadget from AROS, I suppose. :laughing:

But really, OS 3.9 came out before MorphOS 1.0 and AROS was not even booting on hardware at the time. OS4.0 was released about same time, and whether you like it or not, you belong in the Hyperion/OS4 "camp" since that is where OS3.x vanished.

Then that's reluctant to know for AROS and Gunnar's team. I never stated the opposite. I just said "it needs to be clarified".

reluctant? redundant?

[kolla]

In principle yes, if the internal interface would be revealed, or would be reworked. This will/would take some time, though.

It is called P*96* - it has been 20 years, for crying out loud! :hammer:

[kolla]

Could you please report the bugs so I can fix them? Thank you.

Why? I use CyberGfx4 with my CV64 and CVPPC, the last thing I had that used P96 was Voodoo5 with Mediator - I am not even sure you would bother to help me with such a setup :laughing:

Also - why would I send bug reports to you? You have no rights to develop P96.

[kolla]

In other words, FUD. Just what I thought. Thank you for confirming.

Oh wow, you know about "FUD"?

I did have a PicassoIV card at some point, and I also tried really hard to use P96 with CV64. It was pointless. I got rid of the PIV as it brought more hassle than I needed, was easier to use CSPPC along with CV64 than along with PIV. Then came the Mediator, and I was eyerolling. It took 5 years from I bought the Voodoo5+Mediator for them to work together, and in the meantime I borrowed a Voodoo3. The same stupid artifacts and bugs I had back with CV64 were still there with the Voodoo cards, and the user interface made me dream of editing xorg.conf by hand. Luckily with UAE for most part there is no need to deal with it, I belive last time I messed with it was with FS-UAE on DragonFlyBSD, just to test that PIV emulation was working before I installed OS4.1FE.

Your assumption that I am "just spreading FUD" is rather ignorant.

Actually, this might not be quite so...

I have no reason to believe that you have any rights to currently do any work with P96 unless I hear it from the original authors. I am aware that you are on the "thank you list", but that is not the same as having a license to do official development. The DDK was for hardware developers, and AFAIK you have no hardware that you are selling.

[kolla]

Authors want payment.

Not all authors. As for the P96 authors, they want to be left the heck alone, and never be bothered about P96 ever again. I suggest we as a community grant them this wish.

[kolla]

All these recent happenings have pretty much made me convinced that the sooner AROS is a drop in replacement for OS3.x the better for the Amiga community.

True, and this also makes it a lot easier for people to do the mental migration to modern hardware that AROS also runs on :laughing:

[kolla]

So, once again, what are these bugs and stupid artifacts? FUD?

You expect me to to dig out 10-20 year old screenshots? Sorry, I have not kept them around AFAIK.

For CGFx, I can point you at particular bugs. For example, its line clipping is incorrect, and it does not adjust the line patterns correctly. That's one of the bugs I remember. I don't know whether this has been fixed at this time, but my GVPSpectrum worked a lot better with P96 than with CGfx.

Again - CGfx merged into MorphOS, and to a degree AROS. Where did P96 go? OS4, where you can still mess around with the same darn Prefs thingy as back in the 90ies :laughing:

Picasso96TNG worked pretty well for me for setting up the screen modes, not much of a problem there. There might have been an older configuration tool at some point, but that was much before I entered.

The program that comes with it is called Picasso96Mode, it is even there in OS4.1FE (!!). Picasso96TNG I vaguely remember, it gives me 8 hits on Google.

The P96 CV64 driver is probably unmaintained, and indeed, if this was your hardware, CGfx would have been the better choice as its driver came from its manufacturer, no surprise really.

For the PIV and the PII (and the similar GVPSpectrum) the situation was quite reverse, so it's hard to come up with a general recommendation. The P96 PiP-functionality was particularly tuned for the PIV, for example.

I wanted multimonitor setup, it was a hassle. Eventually when I had CVPPC, the choice was clear - get rid of the PIV and P96 too. Sadly P96 came back when I tried to put together an A4000 with Mediator 4000Di and the voodoo cards.

I doubt that they would talk to you. Actually, I do not even know why I'm doing as I would not really expect any particular useful answer from you in first place.

They do not have to talk with me, they just need to issue an official statement, on behalf of themselves and not via you.

And no, I don't have a license at this point, but it was part of the discussion to get an official one to work on P96. Actually, I worked on P96 back then, with agreement with the authors. We didn't need a particular written icense back then. A word (or a mail) among honest people was enough in those days. That's not the typical "legal vs. illegal" bullsh*t I see here.

This exercise in BS is mostly performed by you though.

My argument is quite simple: If it's good enough to use it in your products, it should be good enough to pay for. Something Elbox already got particularly wrong.

Do you know the difference between "should" and "must"?

Anyhow, all of this is history anyhow. My mood to work on anything Amiga related has gone missing lately, even more with folks like you on board.

Good for you! Take a vacation from Amiga, the world is bigger and life is short!

[kolla]

As a personal friend of mine I take offense to your questioning his ethics.

Someone earlier on this thread mention FUD :hammer:

[kolla]

If the community wants to go AROS, why should I stop them?

"should"? You clearly "want", since AROS will be "a mess"

But then, if everyone is begging for OpenSource, please be also so honest and open the source completely, and with full consequences. That means:

*) Do not build on a proprietary interface. Create your own, and open source that interface. You would probably notice how much work went into it and would appreciate the work of the original authors.

*) Do not build on a proprietary FPGA solution. Open source the solution as well.

Exactly, which is why I really do not have so much interest in apollo core, it is clearly just an attempt at monopolizing "the market".

[kolla]

Vampire is the future, SAGA offers higher resolution and more colors than AGA and more. Coming software will make use of it.

In their dreams - I will pester them online for attempting at monopolizing the Amiga market till they blow off like lemmings.

Apollo core will leak! :laughing: