Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Author Topic: More bad news surfaces  (Read 5797 times)

Description:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline commodorejohn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2010
  • Posts: 3165
    • Show all replies
    • http://www.commodorejohn.com
Re: More bad news surfaces
« on: August 14, 2013, 06:40:58 AM »
Hee :D

Of course, the question still remains: exactly how many embarassing public failures will it take before Microsoft finally get it through their heads that they can't engineer their customers to fit the product they want to make?
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/MT-32/D-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, Yamaha DX7/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini, Ensoniq Mirage/SQ-80, Sequential Circuits Prophet-600, Hohner String Performer

"\'Legacy code\' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
 

Offline commodorejohn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2010
  • Posts: 3165
    • Show all replies
    • http://www.commodorejohn.com
Re: More bad news surfaces
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2013, 04:59:29 PM »
The thing is that Microsoft is not Apple, and Windows's userbase is not iOS's userbase. Any halfwit could tell you this (and plenty did tell them exactly that,) but Microsoft has got it into their heads that they can just forcibly transmogrify their customer base into entirely different people with different requirements out of a computer by sheer force of will. They keep getting hammered with evidence that this is not the case (see also: the XBone fiasco,) but they've yet to actually take any of that to heart...
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/MT-32/D-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, Yamaha DX7/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini, Ensoniq Mirage/SQ-80, Sequential Circuits Prophet-600, Hohner String Performer

"\'Legacy code\' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
 

Offline commodorejohn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2010
  • Posts: 3165
    • Show all replies
    • http://www.commodorejohn.com
Re: More bad news surfaces
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2013, 08:11:49 PM »
Quote from: koaftder;744717
Yet that's exactly what Apple does every time they release a new product and they're successful. People snap up iPads left and right and drone on about how great they are while complaining about all the stuff they can't do with it. Meanwhile Microsoft releases products that solve all those issues and they scoff.
Again, Apple manages to make it work because they're Apple, and  Apple has spent decades crafting a user culture that wants to be  coddled and told what they want and given shiny new crib toys to play  with. Microsoft hasn't, they don't have that user culture, and  they haven't even spent any time trying to craft one; they've just released products nobody wants and then demanded that customers adapt their expectations to fit what's being sold instead of trying to adapt what they sell to fit what customers want. And they're getting rightfully excoriated for it.

Quote
They actually are, considering that most iPhone and iPad users are  syncing their devices up to Windows computers.
The thing is that nobody buys Windows because they want an iPad. If they did they would buy an iPad. And yes, many of them do buy iPads - which means they already have iPads, and absolutely nobody was giving any indication that they wanted their PC to also be an iPad, or that they wanted an iPad that was made by Microsoft instead of Apple. Which is why next to nobody has reacted to this by saying "you got your iPad in my PC! TWO GREAT TASTES THAT TASTE GREAT TOGETHER!!!" Sometimes I eat tuna fish. Sometimes I eat chocolate. This does not mean that I'm looking for a happy medium between the two.

Quote
Windows 8 and the Surface tablets was Microsoft's attempt to give the customer what he asked for by listening to the complaints people had about competing products. Surface Pro rectifies all the complaints people had about other tablets. It's actually a pretty nice product, problem is people say they want one thing but turn around and grab something else. RT is kind of lame, but hey, people said they wanted ARM.

Microsoft's biggest mistake was in trying to give people what they thought they wanted. The latest XBox is a testament to that mentality. How many times have you hear folks bitching about all the crap shoved under their TV and the pile of remotes they have to juggle? So they've created the ultimate in your face, one super ultra mega box to rule them all and dominate your living room with an iron fist. Cameras and mics to monitor your ass 24/7 and apps to manage your fantasy football teams...
This is complete nonsense. Nobody wanted desktop Windows to be a tablet OS. Very few people even wanted a Microsoft-branded tablet. Windows 8 is entirely Microsoft's baby; it's their attempt to do a cargo-cult copy of the iPad, because they saw how much money Apple was raking in with those suckers. This is obvious when you look at the Windows Store - they want developers to just give them a cut of their sales for no other reason than because developers have settled for letting Apple do that to them. This is not about what Windows users want; it's about what Microsoft wants.

And that's even more true for the XBone. Every single thing about that was a middle finger to gamers and a self-service to Microsoft - requiring the Kinect, which nobody wanted, so that it would look like less of a failure (and net another $100 per unit,) locking down the used-games market so that Microsoft and their publisher friends could help themselves to the majority of used-game revenue at the cost of screwing over gamers and retailers alike, requiring always-online because...who the hell even knows, presumably they think it's some way to combat piracy? That was entirely about exploiting customers to serve their own interests. Sony basically had E3 handed to them on a silver platter because the only thing they had to do was make an announcement saying "hey, guys, we're not planning on actively screwing you over" and they automatically looked like the good guys.

Microsoft is continually banging their head against the wall with this attitude, expecting their customer base to adapt itself to what it is that Microsoft wants to be doing, rather than offering customers what they want and winning hearts and dollars thereby. It's not a mutually-beneficial customer/business relationship - it's a predatory one, and surprisingly enough it turns out that people don't like being preyed upon.
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/MT-32/D-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, Yamaha DX7/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini, Ensoniq Mirage/SQ-80, Sequential Circuits Prophet-600, Hohner String Performer

"\'Legacy code\' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
 

Offline commodorejohn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2010
  • Posts: 3165
    • Show all replies
    • http://www.commodorejohn.com
Re: More bad news surfaces
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2013, 09:29:17 PM »
They altered an existing product line into something different and are expecting people to switch to that (it's not like they're going to continue selling 7 indefinitely, or do the sensible thing and spin off a tablet OS,) despite the fact that basically nobody wanted it and huge numbers of people repeatedly told them so very publicly during development.

Nobody said you were brainwashed. Doesn't mean you have good taste.
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/MT-32/D-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, Yamaha DX7/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini, Ensoniq Mirage/SQ-80, Sequential Circuits Prophet-600, Hohner String Performer

"\'Legacy code\' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
 

Offline commodorejohn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2010
  • Posts: 3165
    • Show all replies
    • http://www.commodorejohn.com
Re: More bad news surfaces
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2013, 10:06:50 PM »
Quote from: psxphill;744734
Every time a few idiots start a hate campaign against Microsoft it makes the news. Once you ignore them and just get on with using it then you will have a much happier life.
Yes, once you discount all the people who object to a thing, there cannot be any dissent! Clearly! (And the fact that nobody has any objection to Windows 8 fits perfectly with the way its rate of adoption has only just recently surpassed that of Vista.)
 
Quote
Having a separate tablet OS doesn't work, they already did that with Windows XP Tablet PC edition. The only way to make the market move is to include it in the standard OS, which they did for Windows 7. Windows 8 is just a slight upgrade of that, because Windows 7 didn't persuade enough people to use a tablet.
First off, XP Tablet failed for a multitude of reasons: its UI sucked, the hardware sucked and was also x86 at a time before x86 was any good for sub-laptop mobile hardware, and there was essentially no software tailored for a good tablet user experience other than the pack-ins. None of those had anything to do with its status as a spin-off.

Second, I'm curious as to how you think Windows 7, with its megalithic GPU-intensive Aero UI, was in any way intended as a tablet OS...
 
Quote
The idea of Metro is good, maybe not the execution. However it doesn't harm you if you don't use it, I don't ever use it.
"This new product totally isn't a failure if you simply avoid exactly the thing that most differentiates it from its own predecessor!"

Quote
Although in the long term desktop apps will disappear, so hopefully they'll have got it sorted by then.
Right, because everybody's developing all that great new Metro software that will totally fill all the gaps left by 17+ years of quality Win32 software. No worries there!

Quote
I'm not sure how all software will work being installed from an app store, but to solve the install/uninstall problem in Windows it needs to change
I fail to see how "developers give Microsoft 30% of their revenue" is a necessary part of a solution to wonky installation issues.
 
Quote
I was hoping that we'd see Windows 8 laptops with Kinect bundled, so you could use hand waving gestures to control it. But then I'm not a luddite.
You know, some people don't object to Kinect because they're Luddites. Some people object to Kinect because A. controlling things by waving your arms around is a hell of a lot more work than controlling them with a mouse and keyboard, B. it makes you look like a total spaz, and C. it will likely cause the person sitting next to you on the plane to bash your head in with your own laptop.
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/MT-32/D-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, Yamaha DX7/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini, Ensoniq Mirage/SQ-80, Sequential Circuits Prophet-600, Hohner String Performer

"\'Legacy code\' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
 

Offline commodorejohn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2010
  • Posts: 3165
    • Show all replies
    • http://www.commodorejohn.com
Re: More bad news surfaces
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2013, 10:59:17 PM »
Quote from: psxphill;744741
You're a hypocrite, you discount all the people who don't object to it all the time.
No I don't, I just don't care what they think.
 
Quote
Windows sales figures are generally tied in with new PC sales,  which we know aren't selling because everybody is currently buying  tablets instead. Which is why Microsoft are trying to enter the tablet  market again. Your argument shows that Microsoft should have made  Windows 8 more like an ipad or android tablet.
I won't dispute that Microsoft should've handled their tablet OS better  if they really want to get into the tablet market (though in my opinion  it's far, far too late for another major player to enter that game.)  What I'm saying is that it was a terrible idea to try and make the  desktop OS and the tablet OS the same thing.
 
 
Quote
You could get Windows 7 tablets, which were controllable with pens and gestures. Microsoft rolled the Windows XP tablet features rolled into Windows 7, so you can enable them on Windows 7. How is that not intended as a tablet OS?
Huh, hadn't heard of those, which I suppose is an indicator of how big a splash they made. I'd still maintain that there's a big difference between including optional tablet-adaptation features and actually being full-fledged geared toward tablet use.
 
Quote
The thing that most differentiates Windows 8 from Windows 7 for me is the performance enhancements and the extra functionality. I don't see how something that is optional and can be ignored can be seen as the major differentiation.
It can be seen that way because it is the immediate, public face of Windows 8 and the biggest thing they've been promoting about it...
 
Quote
The problem is that most Win32 software is written by idiots, so Microsoft needs to push managed apps that have a standard structure so the idiots can stop messing up peoples computers.
And you think that Metro software isn't going to be written by idiots? Or that "standard structure" will help? Tell me again, how much crap shovelware is there on the iOS App Store?
 
Quote
Those are two different issues, an app store doesn't require developers to give Microsoft 30% of revenue.
The Windows Store does. Maybe some hypothetical app store wouldn't, but that's hardly relevant to a discussion of Windows 8.

Also, I'm curious about this notion that a centralized software repository will solve all installation woes forever. Because, uh, it sure hasn't seemed to work for Linux.
 
Quote
People mainly don't like Kinect because they are scared the camera is being used to spy on them. I was hoping for Microsoft to actually push Kinect and makes something better than a keyboard and mouse, assuming that it's impossible for it to be done better than a keyboard or mouse is proof you are a luddite. For instance the Kinect could track your hand, duplicating the functionality of a mouse without having to hold something or have a flat surface. The camera doesn't necessarily have to be pointing at your face.
Yeah, the spy-camera potential is another good reason to avoid it, but seriously: even just as a mouse replacement, it's at least as much work for negligible advantage. Suggesting it would be a better keyboard than a keyboard is frankly imbecilic.
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/MT-32/D-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, Yamaha DX7/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini, Ensoniq Mirage/SQ-80, Sequential Circuits Prophet-600, Hohner String Performer

"\'Legacy code\' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
 

Offline commodorejohn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2010
  • Posts: 3165
    • Show all replies
    • http://www.commodorejohn.com
Re: More bad news surfaces
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2013, 11:37:22 PM »
Ye gods. The man has looked identical over the course of my entire lifetime.

Now I'm curious to see what the portrait in his attic looks like.
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/MT-32/D-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, Yamaha DX7/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini, Ensoniq Mirage/SQ-80, Sequential Circuits Prophet-600, Hohner String Performer

"\'Legacy code\' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
 

Offline commodorejohn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2010
  • Posts: 3165
    • Show all replies
    • http://www.commodorejohn.com
Re: More bad news surfaces
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2013, 07:58:13 AM »
Quote from: Duce;744800
You actually tried Win 8 yet, John?
Nope. Has it become not a catastrophically stupid idea while I wasn't looking?
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/MT-32/D-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, Yamaha DX7/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini, Ensoniq Mirage/SQ-80, Sequential Circuits Prophet-600, Hohner String Performer

"\'Legacy code\' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
 

Offline commodorejohn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2010
  • Posts: 3165
    • Show all replies
    • http://www.commodorejohn.com
Re: More bad news surfaces
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2013, 07:05:37 PM »
Quote from: Duce;744804
Then every word you shout from the mountaintops about it carries no weight at all.  You're that guy every city in RL has, underneath the bridge on the freeway, wearing a tinfoil hat shouting doom and gloom about something you admittedly *haven't even tried*.
Oh, I was always going to be that guy. It's been my lifelong destiny.

And again, we come to this notion that you can't say something which plainly makes no sense (sticking a tablet UI on a desktop OS, positioning tablet UI as the future of desktop PCs) is stupid unless you've actually used it, because there's some kind of mystical property incommunicable in mortal tongues that makes it totally brilliant, and also the emperor isn't naked, you're just not refined enough to see his magnificent threads.

Quote
People that have used it will be happy to tell you what is wrong with it.  I'm one of them.  Many will also tell you that it's absolutely rock stable, faster than Windows 7, and how the Metro interface you spew vehemence about can be entirely disabled with a few simple clicks.
Yes, that is my understanding - but you know what? The fact that you can batter the stupidity into submission does not make it not stupid. You still have to set it to boot into desktop mode on a damn desktop PC (where it ought to be doing it by default,) you still have to resort to third-party hacks to get the Start menu back, you still have to employ a workaround to get to a whole assload of settings that used to be available right from the Control Panel, etc. All the snazzy technical underpinnings in the world won't make that not idiotic. I'll stop judging Microsoft on this crap when they stop pushing it.

Quote
Your opinions are in no way wrong, infact you are spot on when you point out what is wrong with it, but the point to make is anything you say about it wasn't gained by the slightest bit of personal trial of W8 at all.
This is absolutely the most baffling thing. You yourself agree with me, you say that nothing I'm saying is wrong, yet because my opinions were formed from observation and discussion rather than direct hands-on experience, they're missing the "magic something" required to make them meaningful?

Also, as regards 8.1, have they actually put the real Start Menu back yet? Last I heard they were still sticking you with the Metro screen...
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/MT-32/D-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, Yamaha DX7/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini, Ensoniq Mirage/SQ-80, Sequential Circuits Prophet-600, Hohner String Performer

"\'Legacy code\' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
 

Offline commodorejohn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2010
  • Posts: 3165
    • Show all replies
    • http://www.commodorejohn.com
Re: More bad news surfaces
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2013, 07:10:25 PM »
Quote from: psxphill;744807
Who told you it ever was? Why did you believe  them? I wouldn't let people manipulate you like that, their motives are  unlikely to be good. Some people would get a kick out of winding you up  like this.
I like how you jump to the conclusion that some Svengali has been  feeding sinister anti-Win8 lies into my brain. Because of course I  couldn't have used my own powers of communication, observation, and  deduction to figure this out myself or something.

Quote from: psxphill;744813
Forcing people to accept change is not a bad thing. Even if it makes them temporarily uncomfortable.
Right you are. So I'm going to chop off your legs and replace them with a fish tail. I know it's not what you're used to or want, but if you just try it you'll find that you're ever so much better a swimmer!
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/MT-32/D-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, Yamaha DX7/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini, Ensoniq Mirage/SQ-80, Sequential Circuits Prophet-600, Hohner String Performer

"\'Legacy code\' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
 

Offline commodorejohn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2010
  • Posts: 3165
    • Show all replies
    • http://www.commodorejohn.com
Re: More bad news surfaces
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2013, 08:57:56 PM »
Quote from: Duce;744854
There's errors absolutely EVERYWHERE in the posts.
Then correct it, don't just stand around smarming about it. If you have better information that you're withholding, you don't get to act smug about it.

Quote
8.1 is a free download.  Gonna hate something, at least be able to say "yeah, I tried it, and here's 100 reasons why I dislike it!".
Donate a computer that can run it, and I will. I'm not screwing around with my existing systems just for this.

Quote
You wouldn't pay much mind nor have much use for a movie critic in the local newspaper if every review he writes starts out with:

"I didn't bother seeing the film, but I think I got a good idea what it's like from watching trailers on TV for it.  My brother says it sucks, my paperboy says it sucks, so it obviously sucks - 2 thumbs down!!!!"
This isn't like judging the quality of a movie based on trailers. This is like judging the quality of a movie based on the fact that it's actually a flipbook with a companion 8-track.
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/MT-32/D-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, Yamaha DX7/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini, Ensoniq Mirage/SQ-80, Sequential Circuits Prophet-600, Hohner String Performer

"\'Legacy code\' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
 

Offline commodorejohn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2010
  • Posts: 3165
    • Show all replies
    • http://www.commodorejohn.com
Re: More bad news surfaces
« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2013, 03:16:12 AM »
Quote from: James2002;744900
Linux saves the environment. It gives old laptops and desktops new life.
Okay, I'll put up with a lot of dubious claims, but this is quite frankly just horseshít. The endlessly-perpetuated myth of Linux the Featherweight Champion derives what truth it ever had from nerds' stripped-down custom distros that ran with barely more than a tiling window manager with a bare desktop and a bunch of shell sessions in XTerm - yeah, you can do that plenty easy on a 486, let's see you do something impressive on it. Modern distros with modern desktop environments are hardly lighter than their Windows and Mac contemporaries and (in my experience) generally perform worse on low-end systems than "the leading brand." Certainly they're nothing at all like a rejuvenation of an aging machine. (And that's not even getting into the issue of whether the hardware in your old laptop or desktop is even supported...) Windows XP would be a better choice for low-end computing than modern Linux.
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/MT-32/D-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, Yamaha DX7/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini, Ensoniq Mirage/SQ-80, Sequential Circuits Prophet-600, Hohner String Performer

"\'Legacy code\' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
 

Offline commodorejohn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2010
  • Posts: 3165
    • Show all replies
    • http://www.commodorejohn.com
Re: More bad news surfaces
« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2013, 03:57:37 AM »
Damn straight!
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/MT-32/D-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, Yamaha DX7/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini, Ensoniq Mirage/SQ-80, Sequential Circuits Prophet-600, Hohner String Performer

"\'Legacy code\' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
 

Offline commodorejohn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2010
  • Posts: 3165
    • Show all replies
    • http://www.commodorejohn.com
Re: More bad news surfaces
« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2013, 04:35:04 AM »
Oh, I won't dispute that that's an issue - I'm just arguing on the basis of low-end performance.
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/MT-32/D-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, Yamaha DX7/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini, Ensoniq Mirage/SQ-80, Sequential Circuits Prophet-600, Hohner String Performer

"\'Legacy code\' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
 

Offline commodorejohn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2010
  • Posts: 3165
    • Show all replies
    • http://www.commodorejohn.com
Re: More bad news surfaces
« Reply #14 on: August 16, 2013, 04:53:08 PM »
Quote from: psxphill;744950
All I'm saying is that anyone who tries Windows 8 with an open mind actually likes it. You can tell anyone who hasn't tried it or goes in with a closed mind, the reasons they come up for hating it are laughable.
Actually there are multiple people who have tried it and hated it in this very thread. But hey, as long as you define the terms of the argument as "reasonable, open-minded person = agrees with me" and "doesn't agree with me = unreasonable hater," you automatically win, right? Score!
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/MT-32/D-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, Yamaha DX7/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini, Ensoniq Mirage/SQ-80, Sequential Circuits Prophet-600, Hohner String Performer

"\'Legacy code\' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup