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Author Topic: Commodore 900 vs Commodore Amiga 1000  (Read 14822 times)

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Offline commodorejohn

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Re: Commodore 900 vs Commodore Amiga 1000
« on: August 03, 2013, 06:39:20 PM »
Commodore may or may not have done well to introduce the 900 (The Z80000 is certainly a pretty nifty chip for 1986,) but it wouldn't have been a good alternative to the Amiga anymore than the Amiga would've been a good alternative to the 900. Unix was even less of a home-user OS in the mid-'80s than it is today (hell, XWindows had just been introduced a couple years prior, and had a long, long way to go to catch up to where even the Amiga started usability-wise, to say nothing of Mac OS's polished GUI.)

And as good as the hardware may have been, there was and is a lot more to success in the big-iron market than pure specs - software options, reliability, quality of support, etc. Could Commodore have delivered on those? I dunno...
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/MT-32/D-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, Yamaha DX7/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini, Ensoniq Mirage/SQ-80, Sequential Circuits Prophet-600, Hohner String Performer

"\'Legacy code\' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
 

Offline commodorejohn

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Re: Commodore 900 vs Commodore Amiga 1000
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2013, 05:14:14 AM »
Quote from: agami;743572
I would have to say that Commodore would have been better off going with the high end business and education market. Who knows, they might have even survived throughout the '90s and eventually got bought out like DEC, Compaq, or Sun.
And how has that worked out? (Hint: it ends with Alpha kiboshed just when it was getting good so's not to threaten HP's Itanium offerings, and VMS given a death sentence.)
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/MT-32/D-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, Yamaha DX7/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini, Ensoniq Mirage/SQ-80, Sequential Circuits Prophet-600, Hohner String Performer

"\'Legacy code\' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
 

Offline commodorejohn

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Re: Commodore 900 vs Commodore Amiga 1000
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2013, 07:15:20 AM »
Quote from: ChaosLord;743582
I don't understand what this thread is about.

Commodore offered multiple Unix machines at cheap prices to the free market and the free market rejected cheap unix machines.
This thread is about going "oh, if only Commodore had accepted Inevitable Unix Dominance and allowed themselves to be assimilated into the collective, they might still be around as a subsidiary of some modern tech giant cranking out indistinguishable Unix boxen, instead they died pushing a neat and innovative line of personal computers, the fools - wistful sigh!..."
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/MT-32/D-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, Yamaha DX7/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini, Ensoniq Mirage/SQ-80, Sequential Circuits Prophet-600, Hohner String Performer

"\'Legacy code\' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
 

Offline commodorejohn

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Re: Commodore 900 vs Commodore Amiga 1000
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2013, 05:25:55 PM »
Even if the blitter was superior, the actual output of the 8563 doesn't have jack on the Amiga - a character-oriented bitmap mode with two colors per character cell, or one color per character in text mode, out of a palette of 16 with no custom palette capability included, compared to sane, linear bitmaps at up to 64 colors from a total of 4096 or even a mode that allows all 4096 colors? Yeah, you can keep your superior blitter, C900.
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/MT-32/D-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, Yamaha DX7/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini, Ensoniq Mirage/SQ-80, Sequential Circuits Prophet-600, Hohner String Performer

"\'Legacy code\' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
 

Offline commodorejohn

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Re: Commodore 900 vs Commodore Amiga 1000
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2013, 06:01:42 PM »
Who cares whether color was important for Unix workstations? The point is, the Amiga had that capability, and it was used for a lot of great stuff. The C900 didn't. Had Commodore gone the 900 route, would we have gotten the Cinemaware titles? Shadow of the Beast? Deluxe Paint? If we even had, they would've looked like ass by comparison, unless you sprang for an expansion card to provide the capabilities that the Amiga had right out of the box.
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/MT-32/D-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, Yamaha DX7/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini, Ensoniq Mirage/SQ-80, Sequential Circuits Prophet-600, Hohner String Performer

"\'Legacy code\' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
 

Offline commodorejohn

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Re: Commodore 900 vs Commodore Amiga 1000
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2013, 03:22:03 AM »
Quote from: agami;743773
You must suffer from CMPS (Chronic Missing-the-Point Syndrome). The questions was not whether we (the Cinemaware title playling public) would have been better off, but rather would Commodore (the computer company) have been better off.
Well, A. that really hasn't been the general thrust of this thread, even if the OP tried to sound like it - it's been much more this wistful pining for the idea that maybe we could all have had chickenheads on our generic Unix workstations - and B. who cares? Commodore the company was sunk at least as much by managerial malfeasance and refusal to commit to improving its product line as it was by failing to catch on to some theoretically-inevitable shift towards Unix workstations (and I'd just like to ask, how much could they really have expected to benefit from that? Even if they had managed to establish a foothold in that market, it's not like Unix workstations were enough to save DEC from a buyout.)

I swear, it's like half the people in this community operate on the logic that the way things did go is the only way things could have gone - because Unix/Unixoid is the "in" thing right now, it must have been inevitable, and anybody who explored another avenue that ultimately didn't pan out should be alternately mourned and castigated for their lack of vision in failing to accurately predict future developments and accede to their obvious inevitability. Who cares if Commodore might have made it through a few years more, if doing so would require sacrificing their hands-down best product for some generic-ass Unix box? I'd rather they have died doing something good (or even having done something good and just failing to follow up on it) than hang on through mediocrity.
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/MT-32/D-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, Yamaha DX7/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini, Ensoniq Mirage/SQ-80, Sequential Circuits Prophet-600, Hohner String Performer

"\'Legacy code\' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
 

Offline commodorejohn

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Re: Commodore 900 vs Commodore Amiga 1000
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2013, 07:30:48 PM »
Quote from: psxphill;743803
The 8563 was horrible in the C128 and it would have been no better in the serial terminals for the C900.
Which reminds me of Bil Herd's great tale of the development of the 128, and all the trouble they had getting the dang 80-column video to work...
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/MT-32/D-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, Yamaha DX7/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini, Ensoniq Mirage/SQ-80, Sequential Circuits Prophet-600, Hohner String Performer

"\'Legacy code\' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup