Status report on AmigaOS 4.2 development

[commodorejohn]

Any news on the netbook?

[commodorejohn]

It`s about SW.

It is indeed - and they've left this absolutely huge hardware proposal unaddressed for nearly a year and a half now. If they're making announcements, I care more about knowing whether there will be an affordable OS4 machine sometime in the near future than about an update to an OS that only runs on machines I can't afford.

[commodorejohn]

well the sam440 doesnt cost that much.
I know its far from as fast as the latest wintel based puter, but that puter cost alot more than the sam. And a windows licens cost about the same as AOS4.1 licens.

There's none on eBay for me to check right now, but I recall SAM boards fetching $500-800 typically (sometimes with the license, sometimes without.) The supposed price range for the netbook was going to be $300-500, which is a little closer to reasonable for a hobby purchase.

Yes, Windows machines (and Windows licenses) can cost more than that (though they can also be much cheaper,) but on the other hand they can do a whole lot more, and are much easier to use as one's daily driver. The standards for a hobby machine are different. MorphOS, utilizing used Macs that one can get for anywhere from free-off-the-curb to $200, and providing a full-fledged free trial of the OS, get that. Hyperion really doesn't seem to.

[commodorejohn]

What is it that windows can do, that you miss in AOS4.x? I use both on my office, and I don't miss anything in AOS4.x, but the SAM does boot into workbench in less than half the time, that my office PC uses to boot into windows.
And on top of that AOS4.x is alot more responsive than windows, not just by margins but by miles.

Well, I can't really speak for OS4 as I haven't used it (see above comments re: too damn expensive,) but do remember that your use case is not necessarily everybody else's. Personally the only thing that would keep me from using an alternative platform as a daily driver is my VSTs (and that may change in the future, as I've started to get into real hardware MIDI gear,) but lots of people are dependent on Windows or Mac-specific software for different things. I, for example, could probably get along fine with a native Amiga drawing program, but for someone who really needs a new version of Photoshop or Illustrator for their workflow wouldn't find it so easy.

I've seen a qoupe of sam's in sweden going for about 385usd. One ep and one flex. I don't think thats an unfair price.

My point isn't so much that the price is unfair (that's a thorny discussion that I have no intention of starting up,) but that for a lot of us there's only so much we're willing to drop on a hobby system. The only SAM boards currently in stock at Acube are $750-870, and that's for just the board and OS4. That's simply much more than I want to spend for something I'd just be playing around with, especially when I could drop a couple hundred bucks on a MorphOS license for one of the G4 Macs I got for $10 at the recycle center and have a complete working system instead.

[commodorejohn]

Lots of families feature heavy infighting and mutual loathing

[commodorejohn]

I know you have never used AOS4.x, which makes your complaining meaningless.

My complaining about OS4 machines being too expensive for a lot of us is meaningless because I've never used OS4 (because it only runs on machines which are too expensive for a lot of us?)

Right.

[commodorejohn]

John, you complaining about the price is just one thing though. You did tell me there where things that AOS4.1 can't do that windows can do, which was another complaint of yours. Again, what are those things?

What I said was that there are people dependent on specific Windows software who would not find it so easy to switch to OS4-native alternatives. But you know what, you want an example? Here: MusicLab RealLPC. It doesn't even run on PowerPC Macs, to say nothing of something like a SAM board, and good luck getting anything like usable performance out of it in emulation on a <=1GHz CPU - to say nothing of running additional VSTs alongside it. If I were a guitarist with an actual Les Paul, that'd be one thing - but I'm not. So if I want to use this plugin to add some sweet, sweet Gibson sounds to my music, there is simply no way I can do that on OS4.

[commodorejohn]

Don't like the product, don't buy it.  Pretty simple really.  I personally recommend everyone tries the NG Amiga platforms.  They really are a lot of fun to use, assuming you have your head screwed on right.

Again, though, how exactly are we supposed to do that? MorphOS I can try by picking up a used Mac at the local recycle center or public school for beer money (one that will, if I turn out not to like MorphOS, serve perfectly well for running OS9 and old MECC games) and burning a live CD; there's no such comparable option for OS4. (Correct me if I'm missing something, but) In order to give OS4 a shot, I'd have to drop $500-900 on a board (which does at least tend to come with the OS,) more for a PSU, hard drive, RAM, mouse, and keyboard at least (that's assuming OS4 supports the onboard Silicon Motion audio/video?) That's an investment of up to $1100 just to try the thing! See the problem here?

I would honestly be 100% open to giving OS4 a shot if there were any reasonably accessible way to give it a try and find out if I like it before blowing that kind of money on a system, but there's just not.

[commodorejohn]

that might exactly be a reason not to provide a demo version and not support any cheaply available hardware. if you need to invest considerable amount of money beforehand you will not easily give up, even if what you get wouldnt live to your expectations. a customer in such a situation tries to sit it through, convince himself that the product is not so bad and hope for the future improvements. especially if there is no return option, or it means even more stress and investments, like for instance high postal risks and costs.

You realize that you're describing Customer's Stockholm Syndrome here? It's certainly true that someone who invests a lot of money in something that doesn't live up to their expectations won't as easily give up and admit that it may not have been the best purchase, but that doesn't make the purchase any better. All it means is you're going to have among your userbase a certain class of user who really doesn't like the product as much as they say they do, but refuses to admit that, to themselves or anybody else. And there's still going to be that barrier to entry for everybody else who might otherwise be interested.

You can try MOS on a Mac - thats quite cheap and  easy - if You really want to try. You can be assured AOS 4 (if that is  your preferred taste) is for sure not lightyears different from that  experience.

Probably not a whole lot different, but it still tells me nothing definite about whether I'd have problems with OS4 specifically, and when looking at a purchase in the hundreds-to-a-thousand range, definite is something I really, really want. When I bought a synthesizer from a guy in Superior yesterday, for example, I didn't just hand him money and then take it sight-unseen; I went over to his house, spent a couple hours testing it, getting a feel for the sound, the keyboard, and the interface, and making sure all the keys worked and were responsive. I dropped $300 on that thing, but I can feel sure that it was worth it, because I was able to make sure I liked it and that it didn't have any problems before I bought it. OS4 does not make that kind of demoing easy, or often even possible.

John - I'm sure most OS4 guys wouldn't mind letting  you VNC into their machines.  I know I've done it for a few guys that  wanted to try it.

Really? That's big of you. I'm not going to be actually looking at an OS4 system-caliber purchase any time soon, but I would be interested in getting a feel for it.