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Author Topic: Whatever happened to our hobby?  (Read 11013 times)

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Offline vidarh

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Re: Whatever happened to our hobby?
« on: May 25, 2011, 09:39:00 AM »
Quote from: antonvaltaz;640115
It's interesting that with all the rise of tablets, smartphones, netbooks etc you keep getting articles in the mainstream press about the 'death of the desktop computer'. I think what is starting to happen is that for people who aren't actually at all interested in computers as such, they will more and more use other devices for their online shopping, banking, social networking, etc. Meanwhile people who are actually interested in computers 'proper' will carry on using them. In some ways it will revert back.


I think we *will* see the death of the "desktop" computer, just not as quickly as they think.

What's important to realize is that this is the death of the *form factor*: Eventually no more big bulky boxes that's stuck in a single location.

My cellphone is now far more powerful than my desktop from just a few years ago. New cellphones come with HDMI out in many cases. Wireless HDMI is on the horizon. Bluetooth keyboards and mice. In a couple of years time, for *most* people, a monitor and keyboard with wireless connection to their phone will be sufficiently powerful to do whatever they want. Even for hobbyists. Even laptops are being threatened by this and pads (see for example the Asus Eee Pad Transformer, and whatever that other one that was announced that was a screen, keyboard and extra battery that you slotted your cellphone into to use as a laptop)0

Even in the "do it yourself" arena, look at the Natami and Replay boards. See how tiny they are. I don't remember the precise dimensions of the Natami, but the Replay is about 1/3 the size of a MiniITX board. Another few years and you'll probably be able to put together powerful FPGA powered machines small enough to fit the shell of a current cellphone.

Storage is rapidly exceeding what most people need in tiny packages. My phone has 32GB, and that 32GB card is smaller than the nail on my little finger. Higher capacities in the same form factor are on the way. If I want to store movies I can buy several TB of storage in an external drive smaller than the smallest desktop I've ever owned, and it's getting smaller (or bigger capacity, or both).

Give it a few years, and 99%+ of computer users will have their computing needs *and* their storage needs met by computers smaller than a cellphone, and will only have larger form factors when/where the form factor makes a difference (e.g. tablets for the large screen; laptops or "laptop shells" for keyboard/screen combo)  or if they have specialist needs or are being contrarian.

At that point, does it make sense to talk about "desktops"? If the only connection your computer needs is the occasional charging cable, and it fits in your pocket, why chain it to your desk? Maybe you'll keep a large screen and a keyboard at your desk, but no reason to leave the computer there.

The remaining 1% or so (of course the actual percentage is just a wild guess) will still have plenty of opportunity to buy boxes to stuff full of components, but your needs are going to have to be pretty weird for you to need them, and even then you might find that such needs can increasingly be met as "expansion boxes" wirelessly connected to your machine the way network storage can be today.

Doesn't mean that's what they'll all buy or have that quickly - it'll take at least a decade, probably longer, to shift desktops fully out of the mainstream, but it's pretty much inevitable that it'll happen.

But keep in mind that desktops are *already* on the way out. They make up a rapidly shrinking minority of computer-like devices consumers buy, between laptops, netbooks, smart phones, pads etc. And the ones that do get sold are shrinking and/or getting baked into the screen. Last time I went to the local PC World store, I don't remember seeing anything larger than a Mini-ITX style box, and the most space was taken up by laptops and combined computers and screens and cellphones. Of course you can buy bigger ones still, and will "forever", but that's increasingly being relegated to specialist stores.

That's not to say that lots of people won't have computers they keep in one place, but mostly for convenience rather than any need to have boxes big enough to not fit in their pockets or bags.
 

Offline vidarh

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Re: Whatever happened to our hobby?
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2011, 02:26:53 PM »
Quote from: Daedalus;640119
The high-end PC gaming market will, I'm sure, keep the desktop / tower form factor going for quite some time yet.


For a while. But we're not that far off a situation where realtime raytracing becomes cost effective, and raytracing has the very beneficial property that the rendering time doesn't explode as the number of objects increase (but rather with resolution, which is growing quite slowly and is getting close to the point where human eyesight won't notice further increases), unlike with rasterization.

Once that happens, further increases in the power of the computer or GPU's will pretty quickly only marginally improve graphics, as you can keep increasing polygon (or shape, as raytracing can also handle things like spheres etc. cheaply) count dramatically without requiring large performance increases, and the performance improvements will mainly do things like increase the number of refractions that affect the image, which have very little effect on most types of scenes.

That'll take a lot of the incentive for more powerful computers out of the gaming market. It's only so much computing power there's any point in wasting on AI etc..

I'm not doubting that there'll still be some games pushing the limits and taking advantage of really high end gear, but fewer and fewer people will care. In terms of CPU cores, most modern games have trouble exploiting even quad core CPU's fully, and while I'm sure that'll change, it's changing slower than computing power and number of cores is growing, so once the growth on GPU demands subside, I don't think gaming will drive all that much demand for power anymore.

The high end gaming market is already being marginalized anyway - most people are either casual gamers (e.g. satisfied with flash games in a browser or similar) or game on consoles, which are hardly cutting edge performance wise.
 

Offline vidarh

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Re: Whatever happened to our hobby?
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2011, 02:33:01 PM »
Quote from: antonvaltaz;640164

So maybe it's better to talk about desktop workstations for your computer, rather than desktop computers per se, but I do think they'll always be around, not just for home-office workers but also for computer hobbyists.


I agree with that. After several years of only using laptops I'm about to get a large screen and keyboard hooked up at home, exactly because I'm more productive on a large screen. At work, I do use a laptop, but connected to a big screen and separate keyboard. I think that's essential for serious use. But quite soon it hopefully won't require the big bulky separate box any more.

I particularly look forward to getting to a point where I have all my data everywhere (even when the network isn't available)

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Following on from your points, did you see David Braben's tiny £15 ARM-based computer, designed to be attached to a full-size keyboard, mouse and monitor, precisely for the purpose of getting schoolkids to play around with computers as a hobby?


Yes. Want it. Even though I don't really have any uses for it (though perhaps someone will port AROS to it...). It'll be fun to tinker with, though my phone has more memory and a faster ARM chip already :)
 

Offline vidarh

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Re: Whatever happened to our hobby?
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2011, 11:40:26 PM »
Quote from: B00tDisk;640204
As small as they are, I wonder how much of a stretch it would be to just start putting commodity Arm 1.1ghz dual core CPUs and a build of android - basically a cell phone - inside any and all TVs these days?

Just pop it in there in and amongst all the other circuitry, stick an SD slot on the side of the TV for folks who want more storage...bam, Mr. and Mrs. Livingroom can phone up Jane and Johnny while they're at the university, play Angry Birds, look at photos, etc. all on the TV, no screwing around with a dedicated computer.  Just use the remote.

A large percentage of modern flat screen TV's already almost has this. A lot of the Samsung TV's runs Linux, for example. Mine has a USB slot, not SD, but it'll start a media player if you plug any mass storage USB device in it.

EDIT: Take a look here: http://www.crunchgear.com/2010/03/24/hack-your-samsung-tv-linux-guy/
EDIT2: And here for LG TV's: http://mikko.korkalo.fi/openlgtv/
« Last Edit: May 25, 2011, 11:43:02 PM by vidarh »