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Author Topic: Wither Natami?  (Read 39374 times)

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Offline SamuraiCrow

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Re: Wither Natami?
« on: August 05, 2008, 02:06:01 AM »
@Hans_

(Off topic rant about non Natamis)

The Natami is pushing the hardware limits but it will only be able to run OS 4+ if they add a PowerPC accelerator card to it.  Before the Mac went to Intel the PowerPC was a vibrant design with lots of attention and now it is relegated only to game machines which are restricted by hypervisors so that they don't allow ordinary people to experience their full potential.

I think PowerPC is a dead-end as much now as ever and the Intel and AMD processors are reaching a dead end also due to the heat restrictions of higher clock frequencies and are turning their attention toward multiple cores.  Since their software doesn't run well on multiple cores they are going to be at a standstill.

I think the Intels will make it further than the PowerPCs because they have a more compact instruction set but that will wear thin when easier-to-use instruction sets prevail.  I think the way of the future is asymmetric multicore design where the cores are dedicated to the functionality they are intended for.

What makes an Amiga, in my opinion, is the dual-bus architecture.  While most computers are stuck with a left-brain dominant design that didn't allow for parallelism, the Amiga introduced a computer with a right hemisphere for creative thinking.  On most computers it may be considered a required peripheral for graphics and sound, but on the Amiga it was standard, integrated, and elegant.  On the stock A1200 it was even right-brain dominant due to the underpowered main processor.

I could say more but if you want to hear more of why I think the way I do, I'll start a new thread.
 

Offline SamuraiCrow

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Re: Wither Natami?
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2008, 04:10:19 AM »
Quote

persia wrote:
Yeah, I'm curious too.  It seems to me that OS X is about as parallel as you can get.  I use multiple cores 8 in two separate units, I borrow processing from other computers in my house.  Everything just works.  I fail to see how AmigaOS could take advantage of any of this.


I use a Mac Pro at work also.  I've run out of time for one night but this thread will have to make do for now.
 

Offline SamuraiCrow

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Re: Wither Natami?
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2008, 03:49:29 AM »
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Piru wrote:
@Hans_
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An updated Amiga OS that breaks compatibility with the old system (but still runs old software in a sand-box) would still have the same design philosophy as the old system. Moreover, you already have a group of like-minded people (which obviously does not include you) ready to make it happen. Start a new OS project, and you end up with "yet another OS project" that is struggling to gain developer interest. Sure it would be a long-term effort, but the starting point is much better than having zero source-code and a blank slate with regard to design.

The problem with this is that if you introduce those new concepts such as MP, SMP, 64bit support and so forth, pretty much all of that old designs and code is useless. Sure you could use those for stuff that runs inside the sandbox, but not for the new stuff.

So basically you are starting with nearly zero source-code and blank slate regarding design. The cynic would ask what exactly would make this new system any better than say Mac OS X or GNU/Linux...


MP is out of the question for AmigaOS but managed code based on a subset of LLVM is possible for AROS and any source code that ditches 68k compatibility.  See this slideshow for an example of how to do it.

64-bit addressing is also out of the question for AmigaOS but what is easily possible, is a hardware-based RAM-disk that can address more memory than 32-bits allows.  All that's needed for this is a custom API that allows for memory swapping either with or without an MMU.

As for SMP, a gang scheduler could allow the forbid() and permit() functions to continue working as long as they disabled all but the first thread, and reenabled all of the other threads respectively, when they were called.  The reason for this is all of the threads use the same task scheduler at once so their time-slices are synchronized.
 

Offline SamuraiCrow

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Re: Wither Natami?
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2008, 04:17:43 AM »
For something to run the sandbox on, see the linked PDF slideshow in my previous post.
 

Offline SamuraiCrow

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Re: Wither Natami?
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2008, 02:18:41 AM »
Hosted AROS runs AROS software in a sandbox on top of Linux.  If you don't want the sandbox and want to run it memory-protected, use Linux itself.
 

Offline SamuraiCrow

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Re: Wither Natami?
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2008, 08:14:23 PM »
@QuarkX

You've obviously never had to install Windows from scratch.  If you don't have the rescue CD from the manufacturer or are building a machine from the motherboard up, you have to hunt down drivers for everything but the install CD.

I'll admit not having a CD driver in the Kickstart is kind of a pain but when the Kickstart 3.1 was made there were no CD-ROM drives.  People still used floppy-disks for everything.  The Amiga could fit more on one medium density floppy than the PC could because of special formatting.  That's why a PC can't easily read an 880k Amiga floppy disk.

The Natami will have CD-ROM and USB storage support in the Kickstart but, in order to do this, it will need to install a patch every time the Kickstart is re-flashed.  Furthermore, if you buy a Natami as a complete system everything will be preinstalled when you get it.
 

Offline SamuraiCrow

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Re: Wither Natami?
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2008, 03:43:01 PM »
Quote

bloodline wrote:

Yes... AGA only requires 2 extra bits in the bit planes... And 3 extra bits in the palette table to achieve the extra colours...

The sprite hardware had a bit of an overhaul and a burst mode was added to Alice... The AGA chipset was a pathetic upgrade... Especially compared to what the PC gfx chip vendors were making at the time!!!!


Actually the PC chip makers were about 3 years later since they couldn't write hardware-accelerated drivers until Windows 95 came out.

Also, the palette table was expanded from 12-bits per entry to 25.
 

Offline SamuraiCrow

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Re: Wither Natami?
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2008, 05:11:59 AM »
@Atheist

The RAD: reboot option will not be needed badly if the Natami comes with a big enough FLASH memory for a HUGE KICKSTART that holds most of the OS.  You're RAD: device will only need the s: directory since most of the rest of the OS will be running from the Kickstart.  This would also free up most of the memory from having to contain anything other than applications.