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Offline picmanTopic starter

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Portable Amiga anyone??
« on: December 28, 2009, 11:14:51 PM »
Hi , I new here (first post) so hi to everyone.

I am considering developing a small compact and cheap portable amiga.
I Design PCBs for a living.
Imagine minimig crossed with a PSP.

Specs
------
32MB SDRAM
1.6M gate Spartan 3E FPGA
4.3" Touchscreen LCD
Joystick
Joypad
buttons (start, menu, reset)
ARM 7 MPU with support for FAT 16/32 using a fast 8 bit bus between the fpga and arm, USB mass storage for SDCARD.
Dataflash for storing the roms.
PSP/iphone Battery
TV out
Headphone/speakers
Volume control
Li-po Charger
The 68000 CPU will be integrated into the fpga.

It will also be able to run other IP cores as well, like pacman,defender, vic20, atari st etc...

I am quite happy to design the hardware and draw the PCB, but need some help with porting the HDL over, can you help..

Is anyone interested in such a device or is it just another waste of time???
« Last Edit: December 29, 2009, 12:23:13 AM by picman »
 

Offline picmanTopic starter

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Re: Portable Amiga anyone??
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2009, 01:28:02 AM »
I do have all the schematics for all the amigas, as well as the source for winuae. I'm not sure weather there is a open core 68020, but because the cpu will be contained within the fpga it should be quicker than the hardware version.
It needs to be cheap. The whole point of the project is to play amiga games (plus others) on a cheap handheld platform. PSP lcds are cheap, SDRAM is cheap, the fpga is around £40 ish, so i would be looking to bring it home for less than £100. I know its more than the cost of an amiga 600 on ebay, but they are getting few and far between, and are not portable.
I also want this device to play defender, pacman, frogger, etc all the games i loved playing when i was a kid. I have owned most amigas and still have 4 a500's 2 a500+'s 1 a600, 2 1200's plus loads of stuff to go with them. But i want to enjoy the games sitting in my armchair without wires.
There are other options to acomplish the same thing, but is not as much fun.
I have just developed a 48 pin device programmer, and used an arm with usb and a fpga, so i can reuse the code from the arm which has a full FAT32/16 DFS >4gig SDHC using a 30MHz bus.
It also programs the fpga using slave parellel mode which is the fastest way to do it.
One side affect from this is that after programming we have a nice 8 bit bus between the fpga and the arm, so the file system should be quick.

Designing the PCB is no problem, I am more than qualified and capable, its the HDL, i am lerning verilog at the moment for my job, but only started september, so need some help.
Its wouldn't be massive work to port minimig to the board, only a simple lcd interface and a few other bits, but then updating it to a 68020 and adding other nice bits might be some work...

As i said there are other options like using an OMAP3 600MHz arm chip and emulating the amiga but then its just another pandora.....and expensive....


I'm not sure if its even worth doing, just getting some feedback....
 

Offline picmanTopic starter

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Re: Portable Amiga anyone??
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2009, 01:37:54 AM »
Quote from: mitchd61;535303
I find something like that extremely interesting and I know a few others that probably would as well. I'm an old school gamer and Amiga user and think your concept is well worth developing. I didn't see any mention of WiFi. Have you considered that? Also I agree with the previous idea of going for a Pandora type look, but perhaps a little sleaker in form. I seem to recall seeing some concept art years ago of a hand-held type of Amiga. If you could find those they might inspire you.



Wifi hmmm, Maybe, would have to look into the cost.
I would prefer someone else to design the case, i see this project as a comunity project, so someone takes a seperate task, like designing the case etc.
Different people bring different skills and it gets the job done cheaper, and better IMHO... Cost is everything. for instance if the Iphone lcd was cheaper and  better we could use that insted, mass produced parts is what we are looking for to keep the price at the minimum, i just like the size of the PSP lcd, and have a few with touchscreens attatched.
It would also be fully open source.
The pandora started the same way and has done very well.
 

Offline picmanTopic starter

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Re: Portable Amiga anyone??
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2009, 03:09:59 AM »
Quote from: jkonstan;535309
I would use the PSP TFT display (480x272 with 24bit RGB) since these are cheap @ $30 USD and readily available.
There is presently only a HDL 68000 CPU core and not a HDL 68020 CPU core.
If you use DDR_SDRAM instead of plain SDRAM, you will get a larger bandwidth and slew rate control in the DDR output drivers. Also, unless you decide to make Amiga specific interfaces, the Amiga schematics may not be of much use to you. You should probably stay with industry standard VGA monitor port, PS2 keyboard/mouse ports, SD card interface, DB-9 Serial port  etc....


Yes i agree with the psp lcd, its a nice size and cheap...
With the ram, i would need more info, let me explain, we could put a lump of DDR2 on the board no problem, but would it matter?
Lets say the fpga is running at 100mhz the slow SDRAM is faster than that so would 333MHz DDR make much difference? even if we had a 68020 running at 50mhz........
 Need input....
As for the ports i was considering a hdmi port for the VGA as you can buy or make a hdmi to vga cable, the reason is the size of the connector. You could also get comp video and svideo out of the same connector, maybe???
I was also thinking of using the mini sd card (as used in phones etc) again because of the size.
And another port(type unkown) which puts out the rs232, jtag for the arm and fpga, that would be expanded on a small breakout board, used only for developing.
The arm chip i have in mind is the LPC2388, this little bute has 96k sram, 512k flash, USB host, device, OTG, ethernet(maybe we can find a wifi chip for it) is low power and only requires a 3.3v supply, and its cheap....
 

Offline picmanTopic starter

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Re: Portable Amiga anyone??
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2009, 03:16:16 AM »
Quote from: mitchd61;535315
Well, I'd definitely would be interested in working on some case design ideas once I had a fairly clear picture of the internal layout. The actual tooling of it is beyond me though. I simply don't have access to the needed tools and materials. As far as the screen goes, I like the PSP lcd as well. The screen on my PSPgo seems to be a bit sharper than my PSP-3000. However, I would imagine the PSPgo's is more expensive simply by virtue of being "newer" technology.


Not sure of the difference between the 2 lcds, but we can find out...
I have a PSP lcd connected to an avr32 and its a very nice bright screen.
See, interest already... All we need is people willing to help and you can move mountains.. :laughing:

Its all about getting enough people to help.

I know i keep on about it, but pandora did it and that cost over £1M..
 

Offline picmanTopic starter

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Re: Portable Amiga anyone??
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2009, 03:28:53 AM »
Quote from: rkauer;535310
As for the 020/030 emulation: ask for some help from Tony_Wilen. He is the author of WinUAE and can help with the C code, which then you need to adapt to Verilog (the same as Dennis did for the first Minimig).


wonder if this would be a starting point?? http://www.c-to-verilog.com/
 

Offline picmanTopic starter

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Re: Portable Amiga anyone??
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2009, 12:26:09 PM »
Quote from: Linde;535335
In my opinion it's better to go for a sort of laptop, since the lack of keyboard on these handheld machines make them pretty useless for general computing.


Thats the idea of the touchscreen.
The unit is only ment to play games and not write applications etc, so only a minimal keyboard is needed like the iphone...
 

Offline picmanTopic starter

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Re: Portable Amiga anyone??
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2009, 01:12:36 PM »
Quote from: Fats;535340
Did you already try to contact MikeJ from FPGAArcade? He claims to have a HDL '030 core. I think cooperating with him could save some work.

greets,
Staf.


I have mailed him, but no response yet...
 

Offline picmanTopic starter

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Re: Portable Amiga anyone??
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2009, 01:17:44 PM »
Quote from: Fingers;535339
But Pandora is already available for order...so why bother starting now?

PZ.


Why bother indeed, this is what i am asking? Is it worth the hastle.
Pandora is expensive, and not the same beast.
Its a 600mhz arm with hardware 3d gfx etc, bit over kill to emulate an amiga..
 

Offline picmanTopic starter

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Re: Portable Amiga anyone??
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2009, 03:30:09 PM »
Quote from: mitchd61;535348
As much as I would love to work on a case design, I have to agree with using mass produced parts to keep costs minimal. I'm pretty fired up about the whole concept though and a distinctively Amiga replacement case is something I'd still like to explore. Even if only for my own personal use.


So how about using the PSP case?
It has a large capacity battery, the correct size screen, analog joystick, dpad..

Slight mod for an sd card... there are lots of faulty ones on ebay for cheap...
 

Offline picmanTopic starter

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Re: Portable Amiga anyone??
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2009, 03:40:15 PM »
Quote from: tone007;535345
Right, but it can do a whole lot more than emulate an Amiga, which opens it to a much wider market.

If you aren't looking to get rich and have some free time, sure, a dedicated portable Amiga emulator could be fun for a few people.  I'd stop short of investing a bunch of money in the idea, though.


Don't get me wrong, i agree with you, its not about making money though, its about keeping the amiga alive in other forms so we can continue to enjoy it.
I won't be investing loads of money into it, maybe a little time an effort but it could be worth it.
If it did make it off the ground people interested would have to pre order to raise the money to make the units. I think its the fairest way of doing things so no one person has to foot the bill. Also it gives you a good idea on how many units you need to produce, and over production is unliky.
 

Offline picmanTopic starter

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Re: Portable Amiga anyone??
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2009, 03:54:48 PM »
Quote from: Fanscale;535354
Bring back the Walker...   :roflmao:

You should base it around a 68030 that was totally compatible with 68000, plus you can play more cpu intensive games e.g. 3D FPS.

What are your qualifications? I did 2 years of Electronic technician certificate, but there was no design subjects. If I did the diploma course you got to build a Z80 computer.

Considering all the cheap and nasty downloadable games you can get... If you can build the hardware someone will get around updated all the classic games.


I have a Bachelors degree in Electronic Engineering, and have done IPC Advanced Designer Certification last year.
I am used to laying out complex boards of many layers but it could be a challenge to use only 4 (to keep the pcb cheap) It needs to be 4 because of using the bga fpga, 6-8 would be better. But because we wont be using all the pins on the fpga we might get away with 4....
I use Altium Winter 09 for capture and layout.
 

Offline picmanTopic starter

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Re: Portable Amiga anyone??
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2009, 12:59:14 PM »
The N97  uses the OMAP3 .. back to pandora......
 

Offline picmanTopic starter

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Re: Portable Amiga anyone??
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2009, 07:03:36 PM »
Quote from: tonyyeb;535462
Having followed the Pandora project for the last 24 (?) months or so, I have seen how difficult it has been for a team of 4 dedicated people to develop a hand held device, similar to what you are proposing. And the Pandora still hasn't been delivered to the first paying customer yet.

Are you proposing something similar to the http://www.fpgaarcade.com/ but in portable form? If so then that is something I may be interested in, at the right price (i.e. cheaper than the a current complete minimig).


Yes thats prity much it, but it will be more basic ie not so many ports etc, but a bigger fpga (1.6M gates insted of 1.2M) and more ram(32/64MB Remember not just for the amiga), so it will be a simple design that can be prototyped and delivered much more quickly.

Psp has mini-usb, headphones, 2 d-pads, analog joystick, and we can add tv out.
but it also uses a 4.3" lcd, is a nice hand size, has a good battery, wireless (if we can find out any info on it) a home button, volume buttons, select button, start button, plus a few more buttons, and they are very cheap from ebay faulty. Not the newer ones the old 1003's. The udm is useless (i think).

I have had a look inside a psp, and think we can replace the motherboard. So if we go ahead, it just means buying a scrap psp form ebay for aound £20 and  
our new board, the psp uses the sony memory stick, so we might be able to use that too (insted of the sd).

Its by no means perfect, but its cheap, and it will work, and be up and running very quickly.



What do you think?
 

Offline picmanTopic starter

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Re: Portable Amiga anyone??
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2009, 07:19:10 PM »
Quote from: Tron2k2;535458
I used to use Nokia phones all the time because they were super sturdy.  Went Samsung for a few phones, they seemed to last about a year (I'm hard on my phones) then went back to Nokia for the Xpress Music 5310.  Tons of features-also tons of flaws in the software, and the durability has been a disappointment-I'm on my fourth one of them in a year and a half.  The earphone speaker keeps blowing out.

So if this is indicative of current Nokia product durability, then I would be reluctant to throw down for another one.

With regards to the actual subject of this thread-yes please!  A portable Amiga would rock.  It would also be possible to sell them in Fred Meyer with a pre-loaded selection of Amiga games.  You know, it would actually MAKE SOME MONEY for someone.  Needless to say, The Name, Inc. were not hyped on the idea..


Making money is not the issue, this wont make anyone rich and i dont wish to profit from it, it will be totally open source, The boards will be put out at cost ( or as close as possible) .

The pandora took 2 years to develop because they did the full blown design from scratch, board case software etc, i have developed stuff for work from the ground up and it does take time,
What i am proposing is we miss out a lot of the steps, develop a small pcb with a big fpga, and lots of ram, to fit into a case that is well made and can donate lots of parts.

The software has been written (just needs modding) the firmware for the arm has lots done already, so i don't think its such a masive task to get a working unit.