Matzes a1k.org Graphics Adapter...

[OlafS3]

And this package is shareware indeed. The DDK is not, and never was. So, instead of guessing, or reading something you'd like to read into a license agreement that does not apply to your form of usage, why not simply talk to the people that should know - the owners?

You try to wiggle around your obligations instead of clarifying the situation. You really should know better how this works.   Indeed not, because the package does not include the driver API or licenses for it. Which means that you simply don't have rights there. Unless you negotiate. That's how the things work - just because a package doesn't say something means that it is free access.    This is not about "writing your own software". It's not a "free standing software" we're talking about which, of course, you can do. Your software requires interfacing to a non-public API for which a development kit exists which you need to license. Again, you're talking to the wrong guy here. If you want to understand the legal situation, ask the owners.   P96 is a bit more than a LEGO brick. It is a complete RTG system, a substantial requirement for your work to be useful. C'mon, this is not a comparable case.  

Actually, they *do mind*, feel ensured. Alex made a pretty clear statement what he thinks about your activity, without any possibility to misinterpret it by my side.

They just don't have enough financial backing to go to court, which currently safes your neck. But that's as far as it goes.

Before I forget: No, the licenses on this graphics card are not derived from "because it is compatible". You should have read my post more carefully.

I cannot make any judgements about the legal situation on certain Amiga APIs and drivers (mostly it was a legal mess back in the time) but looking at certain forum discussions from "real world" it is a little weird... noone outsides cares about anymore for a long time and here people make lengthy discussions about it

[OlafS3]

Why is it every time someone want to improve and give great hardware the developers of an outdated system cry foul? When was the last time P96 was even updated, I think the last version was released in like the late 90's? People don't release new cards for Amiga because of this stupid crap. Open up a damn donation site and start allowing others to pay them. Its that simple. If they write an update, charge for it. How hard is that to understand?

We have so many examples of people wanting to pay for software and new hardware on the Amiga platforms and just as many examples of developers not allowing for a way to pay them or worse yet they ignore customers wanting to pay.

Simply because it is easy money. They are not interested anymore and will not invest any time in it and do not care about amiga anymore but when you get money from something that was wortless before just by requesting then you do it... that lack of common sense partly killed the platform because it was typical for most members of the community with everyone sueing everyone

[OlafS3]

Actually, no. Appollo always negotiated with a third party, and could not come to an agreement - an agreement which would have included P96 as part of the deal, as there was also an agreement between this third party and the owners of P96. *That* by itself is not a problem. Business is business, and parties may or may not come together. I do not have a problem with *that*.

However, if you do not come to an agreement, you either need to negotiate directly with the owners (another party), or you cannot use the component you want to make use of. Just first canceling negotiations, but then still using the component is not my understatement of how business works, and certainly not "gentlemen like". I cannot first say "thank you, we don't want to make business with you", and then still use third party work as if nothing happened. If I do not want a deal, I have no deal, with all consequences.  



Why do you need a public statement of the owners? Why do negotiations have to be run in public? Why do *you* need to care? It's not your software, it's neither your hardware. You're none of the parties involved here.

It's clear who owns P96 (Tobias Abt and Alex Kneer), and its up to them to define license conditions or sell it whomever they want to sell it to. The situation in that respect is actually quite clear - quite the opposite.

The reason why I care (if you care) is that I tried to get people together, and I also talked to Tobias and Alex, and ensured them that Gunnar is a guy they could trust, and he would respect copyright and licenses. Well, now this license breach falls now back to me by recommending someone who does not act "gentlemen like", and unlike promised, could not be trusted. Thank you.

It is "your" software? Why do you care there too?

Ok you feel disappointed by Gunnar but there are two business entities, Gunnar with his project and the owners of P96. They should negotiate and come to agreement or not. If not it is their problem, not mine and not yours. If the current acting is violating copyright the owners of copyright are free to act if they think to do so. Again not mine or your problem. If I understand it right you think the apollo team is not violating in a legal sense but they are morally in duty. But moral is not the same as violating laws or copyrights. I do not know what happened during negotiations and honestly I do not really care. If the owners of P96 would be anyhow interested in the community or how people think they would make some sort of open letters to say how they see it or at least make it possible to license it again. They do not because they do not care about amiga anymore. They would have been not against taking some money of course, who could blame them for it. But again, not your or mine problem. For that reason I stay away from anything of amiga past, all cursed. There was and is no common sense by many former developers. And should I tell you a secret... noone outside cares about amiga anymore (perhaps you know already). You cannot earn money anymore and compared to the big platforms you will never earn money again. The apollo project created in several years of development something that gave back some value and opened some doors. Gunnar and others do not really earn money with it to keep it relative cheap. Now all who have left the community a long time ago are suddenly popping up again requesting money, propably more than the apollo devs now earn with it without giving any support for their products. If they do it is not our problem again but theirs.

[OlafS3]

Well, I agree. This is how business should be done, with proper manners and chivalry.

EXCEPT !!!

In Amigaland where there's always some dense mofo who will block progress.

So the business in Amigaland should be done like this:
A: We're making something, wanna cooperate ?
B: No.
A: Screw you, we're doing this anyway!

And that's it.



And just like that, we don't care about the authors. The moment they chose not to help they got on my 'go and F yourself list'.



And Cosmos has the right solution. +1 for that.

How about this one?

I have 20 years old software that became completely worthless and I am not interested in the platform anymore
Some enthusiasts do something in several years not asking for any money because they want to develop a market anymore
I am still not interested to do something but now I can take money

And there are even users not really involved fighting for me

how about that?

People should keep them out. Lord Aga is not forced to buy or use Vampire or to use P96. Problem solved...

I do not understand why people are wasting their time with fighting for others... again noone outsides cares about it anymore