[UserReview] Vampire V2-128 received and it's just pure p0rn.

[OlafS3]

Well, we don't 'need' an updated OS but sure, I'd be happy to see some of the functionality of OS4 back-ported into 3.x - display stuff would be good (making the the OS more HD and RTG-centric) - basically bringing as much of 68k up to OS4 spec as is feasible.

I'm no programmer, but I'm guessing there's stuff that could be brought across from OS4 to make porting from 3.x to 4.1 and vice versa easier. Perhaps even officially acknowledging UAE as part of the Amiga family and making things like Wazp3D and native code supported out-of-the-box (more integration with the host OS/hardware?).  



There's plenty of users that choose Hyperion/A-Eon's offerings and are happy with them (more or less) - if the rights holders were to look at improving the ageing 68k OS I can't see that as being a bad thing (note: I doubt it'll happen unless Cloanto instigates it).

And of course, you're right - what people choose to run on their hardware is their business and I hope Vampire users are well catered for irrespective of their choice.

As I understand it you are not interested in buying a Vampire anyway. If yes and you have a 3.1 license you get 3.1, simple as that. But you get it how it is. They will try to support it with drivers like the P96 driver when it is possible legally but thats it. There will be no new 3.1, and expecially no 4.X for 68k how some (you?) seem to fantasize. Hyperion wants to sell 4.X on real PPC hardware, even the many emulation customers are officially not supported. All that "they will backport 4.X to 68k" are wet dreams distant from any reality. What you might have got (at best) a slightly improved 3.1. Regarding Thomas, I never claimed that the sources do not exist anymore but there is no chance for people outside Hyperion to access or change them. What if Hyperion really goes bankrupt? OS is not really that unimportant for hardware. Aros offers security and the sources are free accessible, that it is free of charge and no license fees is only one part of the picture and Aros devs are even happy if it is used by people even if they get no money. We will see how the cooperation between Vampire devs and Aros devs will develop, I think both sides will benefit from it.

[OlafS3]

Just as soon as they make a CD32 version



Hyperion wants to sell products that make money - PPC is simply where they've ended up (unfortunately) - and the copyright scenario has changed drastically since the days of the Pegasos. Now the classic hardware market's getting a shake-up that couldn't have happened until products like the Vampire appeared so opportunities are presenting themselves that weren't viable before due to licensing and commercial viability.

That doesn't mean you're wrong - just that if the rights-holders wanted to exploit OS 3.x to make some money, the chances of creating a product that sells are potentially greater now than they've been in a long time (since the Vampire is the first classic Amiga product to come along that's *vastly* more capable than anything we had before).

Clearly there's some will from Cloanto since they've been making minor updates to 3.x for distribution on disk, ROMs and as part as Amiga Forever. I've already stated I highly doubt any of this will result in an updated 68k OS but perhaps if there's a demand for it (due to a product like the Vampire) then it will (and clearly devs like Thomas are open to the idea and a user like myself would be interested in buying it).

Honestly I do not know how the legal situation around Hyperion and Cloanto really is and if Cloanto has all sources. Obviously they are allowed to do changes for their emulation package, but would they be allowed to sell a signficant changed package for hardware like Vampire?

But the decisions are there, officially the NG OS is Aros but nobody is hindering Cloanto or Hyperion to support Vampire and offer updated packages. They want to make money with it (business opportunities like Thomas called it) but that has to be paid by the customers of Vampire. It is not like 3.5 or 3.9 that could be bought and used but not needed to.

[OlafS3]

This, indeed, is the big question, and for me the final question that needs to be answered before I'm going to invest any more time into this affair.

All I can say is the following: Whenever I mention "closed source commercial software" in this forum, I get an uproar as if this would be something morally wrong, undesired. Unfortunately, "closed source commerical software" is the only option for AmigaOs, due to the contracts of Hyperion with Amiga, Inc, and Hyperion is the only option as far as advancing the classic Os is. Yes, Cloanto has a license for 3.1, but no license to extend upon it - at least none that withstood an investigation under a court. Hyperion did that. Does that mean that I trust them? No. Does that mean that they are the ideal business partner? No. Yet, only option, bad luck.

So, what can we do?

I believe the community made a decision, or at least Gunnar made a decision for the community. The signal is quite clear "Avoid AmigaOs classic, go AROS, ditch Hyperion.". Why? Because the unwillingness to pay for the closed source licenses that go with the closed source development model. And, that in the end, pay development hours. Unfortunately, that's what the legal situation is with AmigaOs classic, and there are no means to fix it.

Then, so might it be. Everybody should know what the decision is, and everybody should be aware of the consequences, good or bad. For me it means that the history of AmigaOs stops right at this point.

Only short question back... would you base your whole business model and 7 years of work on Hyperion except they would give you really free and independent access so you are not dependant on the financial, legal situation at Hyperion or decisions done there. I understand that you are legal bound to Hyperion but then admit that and do not all the time claim that you are only talking in the interests of the community. It starts to nerve. Also you would have one of the few candidates doing the adaptions and certainly not without asking for "meals" like you call it. Would have been interesting to hear how big these "meals" would have been.

I have named a number of reasons why the decision was pro Aros. There is also the interview with Gunnar where he explained the project and also talked about Aros. The decisions are rational and result of the negotiations he had, what was requested and offered. Simply as that. Be adult and accept it even if you do not like it. I would not have flooded the threads with moanings when decision would have been pro 3.X

[OlafS3]

Really? Licensed by whom? If I was to buy a Vampire at some point, I would want to use my own kickstart. Is this possible too?

That is exactly what licensed here mean

people proof that they own a 3.1. license and use it

[OlafS3]

I suspect that once the core is finalised it'll just use whatever ROM you have installed like any other accelerator does. Perhaps patching it on the fly and running it from its onboard RAM.

Jason has written a driver for the RTG board that anyone is free to use with the P96 that they already paid for.  There is no law in any country that I'm aware of that prevents Jason from writing this driver and distributing it freely for anyone to do with as they see fit.

I challenge anyone to take this to court and see how far they get.

it is basically the same as on real amigas... the aros roms are installed from CF when booting starts or they are preinstalled. Both is possible

[OlafS3]

So it is not included - I get conflicting information here

I HAVE no conflict :roflmao:

no there are not different informations

official if you order and do not own 3.1 license yet you would get Aros roms

if you proof that you own 3.1 license you get 3.1

in first case you can use aros or whatever boots with the rom replacements. Who knows what future will bring there...

in second both because aros roms are loaded from CF

[OlafS3]

How is one supposed to prove this? Send photos of the motherboards with something that looks like genuine 3.1 kickstart ROMs on them?

(btw - it is "to prove" and "a proof")

thanx... as i understand it you have to read it out and upload it. But better to ask kipper there directly about the details

I am personal not interested in that anyway

from someone already done it:
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=81535&page=9

You grab an image of your Amiga ROM (along with a checksum) with a utility you can download on Aminet.
You then upload to Kippers  FTP server where it get validated.
Just for the record, I did this a while ago and it seems my image is in the "valid" folder.

[OlafS3]

Indeed it does. P96 licences should likely not apply here since AROS comes with its own implementation. Kickstart licenses do not apply because AROS is not dependent on AmigaOs either.

So in a sense, this works. The big question really is whether users have really understood this consequence and are also willing to follow the road towards AROS.

This is precisely why I'm asking so many stupid questions whether there is interest in AmigaOs or not. Because if there is, you'll run into trouble with the lack of proper licensing with the Vampire. So in a sense, you need to decide: Vampire with AROS, or AmigaOs without the Vampire.

I personally consider this a very hard decision to make.

Neither 3.1 nor P96 are preinstalled. The only thing preinstalled is 3.1 kickstart if customer proves that he owns a license already. P96 driver is based on WinUAE implementation and also seperat. The user has to download it when he wants to use and he has to install both 3.1 and P96 on its own. There is no preinstalled configuration with 3.1 and P96. The driver is for Aros and only "accidently" working with P96 like "4.X classic" accidently works with UAE

[OlafS3]

Why do I care at all? That is indeed a good question. I care why I saw that the P96 was more or less going down the drain because a dishonest vendor - Elbox namely - just took the P96 core and used it to sell their products, and returned no money whatsoever to the authors.

And now I see all this happening again.

I'm sorry, this really p*sses me off. It's exactly this type of dishonesty that caused a lot of problems in the Amiga world: CBM, essentially stealing ARexx. Elbox stealing P96, Haage & Partner stealing Genesis.And now, yet again?

Oh, please, do we *really* need to repeat history?

It would be really about time that we get things done the right way and the correct way.

you saw it going down the drain 20 years ago and now you want make a exempel of gunnar as revenge for what happened 20 years ago? :confused:

Please step back and start thinking... you are intelligent

the computers are delivered with a kickstart, nothing else

the aros driver is recommended for aros but also works with P96 but has to downloaded by the users on its own

there is nothing preinstalled, no 3.1. and no P96

if the P96 owner want shareware fees they should show up and say where people can register. If they offer updates people will certainly spend money on it

[OlafS3]

I am not trolling, at best I am emulating a troll.

Not trolling but voting you for number one making most senseless discussions

[OlafS3]

Gunnar:

Some updates,

today we played with 16bit stereo playback feature of PAMELA.

:-)

The "chanel" is able to output stereo-16bit streams.
Which means it does process 2x16bit.
It also can fetch data 64bit wise from memory.

So if you want you can look at it as 32bit audio feature as it processes 2x16 bit per clock with 64bit data path. ;-)

http://www.apollo-core.com/knowledge.php?b=1¬e=5326&order=&x=5

[OlafS3]

Nothing evil going on, stop with the hyperbole. I was there on irc when all this went down, I still have the logs.

Kolla you explained already thousands of times how unhappy you are with the direction of vampire and that Gunnar is a liar and you bought it with different expectations. I already asked you several times to sell your vampire so you have no longer reason to moan and cry on every amiga site, you get your money and there is a new vampire owner who is happy with what he gets. A win for everyone. You did not react on it instead you continue the same. To me it looks like spreading nonsense on websites is your main interest in your life. Very poor...

[OlafS3]

The fact that you keep irc logs tells more about you than about what was said on irc.

Kolla will never contribute anything to the project. Crying is his main interest and makes him feel important

[OlafS3]

Another reason why AGA was judged as higher priority... the standalone devices need it

[OlafS3]

@psxphill

you (and obviously kolla) do not understand what the project is about... it is not about a 100% compatible FPGA based excelerator but a kind of NG 68k hardware and it is a moving target so priorities can change over time. SAGA f.e. has higher priority than FPU (or a compatible MMU) have because you need it for all devices, expecially for the standalone versions. Kolla bought it because he expected it more or less as a affordable accelerator with more ram and now realizing that this is not the goal he uses most of his time to badmouth the people behind. Also there are others who requested that vampire would integrate in existing hardware but that is also not the goal because vampire (or future standalone devices) more or less replace existing extensions. People who want that should better not buy vampires but buy existing accelerators. The same is true for people like kolla who are mainly interested in something 100% compatible. That is all nothing new but was explained several times already.