The Red One X vs x1000

[OlafS3]

You can't truly follow OS 4 development on WinUAE. For starters, WinUAE still has some bugs in it, and is likely to cause instability.
Secondly, WinUAE supports 128MB RAM max, which is very limited when you want to run things like Odyssey, let alone Timberwolf.
Then there's the composite support which is completely missing under WinUAE.
Then the fact that WinUAE's FPU emulation is incredibly slow.

WinUAE's emulation of a CS-PPC is not a good indication of OS4 and should only be seen as a small taste of what can be achieved.

As I understand it he is not interested in seriously developing or working with AmigaOS but only looking at it from time to time and for the rest he wants to play 68k games. For that he does not need new expensive PPC hardware and WinUAE and a modern hardware (PC) that he propably already owns is more than enough. For 68k games Amigaforever is very good or the distribution I work on. Buying hardware for $3000 is a complete overkill in my view.

[OlafS3]

Sorry but for running 68k games and following Os4 development WinUAE PPC on a fast PC is a way better/cheaper. Maybe after releasing 3d drivers X1000 would be useful but now WinUAE provides similar support except speed.

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[OlafS3]

Thanks for the quick responses. Looks like the x1000 could be the one. One last question. Anyone know when the x5000 is looking to be released? Thanks again for all the feedback.

as Spirantho wrotes the "Classic hardware" version of AmigaOS is limited  due to old lhardware limitations. It would of course be no problem to  solve that (by Hyperion) but because they officially do not support  WinUAE as platform do not expect them to solve the problem. If you want  to use AmigaOS as a work environment emulation is not the perfect  solution, if you only (as I understand it) use it for sometimes look at  it it is propably ok.

For beginner that want to run 68k games and other amiga software (if you  not yet own all) amigaforever is a good option. The included roms are  also useful if you want to use Whdload.

[OlafS3]

Amiga Games are best on Amiga 500.

If you just want to play Amiga games the best choice is Amiga 500 with gotek fdd emulator.

Gotek is cheap and always works.

FPGA emulators such as FPGA arcade, minimig, mist will never be as good as the original Amiga 500.

FPGA emulators are waste of time and money.

The same is also true with the Amiga 1200.

AGA games were craps.



For productivity software the best choice is of course the PowerPC Amiga.

x86 solutions such as AROS are not compatible with the Amiga.

68k Amigas are too slow.

Especially graphics that 68k amigas have is ridiculously slow.

The PowerPC processors are fully compatible with 68k.

Binary translation used on PowerPC Amiga is very different from the full system emulation as in the uae.

68k and PowerPC code share the same space and data.

For the user, this means that he does not feel any difference between 68k and PowerPC applications.

Plus, the graphics on the PowerPC is faster than the fastest PC with WinUAE.

For the developer, this means that it can use the old 68k code in the new PowerPC software, as easy as PowerPC code.

Most of the productivity software works on the new better Amigas.

Some poorly written applications will not work on the new better Amigas.

In my opinion, PowerPC Amigas deserve more to be called Amiga than AGA crap which Commodore produce in 1992-1994.

I really regret that I did not buy a new better Amiga earlier.

lots of nonsense in just one post... gratulation

I will only answer to the 68k parts... every old game needs the amiga chipset so it will not work without emulation. By your wonderful PPC solution you have to run UAE on a platform that is slower than the cheaper PC options with no JIT. Does not sound like a good or at least better option.

Aros X86 is running 68k software in emulation, it is not binary but source compatible. In your list you seem to have forgotten that there is Aros 68k that is both and even runs on 68k hardware without needing PPC (in opposite to your favorites).

FPGA hardware is and will not beat standard hardware but it has a real geek factor, something PPC for me (and many others) miss. So I do not see it as waste of time or money. FPGA Arcade and Apollo are my personal favorites and it will be interesting to see what future brings. At the moment I am quiet happy using emulation and outperforming Sam 460 ex.

And my last Amiga I bought was "AGA crap" (A4000 with graphic card, before I owned a A1200 and before that a A500). So the "crap" is part of the history of many people here in opposite to PPC.

And BTW not only most productivity software is 68k but also most compilers. And even if they work somehow on your wonderful PPC hardware they still compile 68k binaries.

[OlafS3]

@cpaek72

If you just want to play around with Amiga games and programs from time to time I would recommend either a MIST or the upcoming FPGA Replay. They are both FPGA boards that can emulate an Amiga on a hardware level. The first is OCS/ECS but an AGA core is on the way. FPGA Replay is meant to emulate an A1200 but is not finished yet.

If you want an NG Amiga, then you have three choises, each with it's own advantages and drawbacks: AmigaOS 4, MorphOS and AROS.

AmigaOS 4:
Plus: "Feels" very Amiga. Has new hardware. Cheap OS.
Minus: Driver issues. Hardware cost (except emulated AOS 4 for classic machines under WinUAE).

MorphOS:
Plus: Good support. Cheap PPC Mac hardware in plenty.
Minus: May lack the Amiga feel. No new hardware (support for SAM 460 on the way). OS cost up to 111 Euro.

AROS:
Plus: Gratis. Open source. Runs on cheap X86 hardware. Several good distros to play with.
Minus: Still very beta.

I'm not saying which of these you should buy, just that you should really do your homework first. I started out with a SAM 460 with AmigaOS 4 when it had some serious driver issues which made me sell the machine in rage. Then I played around with AROS for a year before settling for MorphOS. There are other stories where people find their home with AmigaOS 4 or AROS of course.

BUT! From one guy who was a beginner 2.5 years ago to a beginner today I have this advice: don't start with the most expensive combination first. Go for the cheapest alternatives and work your way up until you find the thing that works for you. I myself lost a lot of money not doing that.

AROS is "still very beta"? Really?

AROS is supporting ARM/X86/X64/PPC and 68k.

I have some knowledge regarding the 68k branch. Where it is "still very beta"?

[OlafS3]

actually he said the aga games were "crap". whatever the case, in whatever comparison aga games and aga itself as technological solution were behind the comparable pc options at their time, and not as revolutionary as genuine amiga (1000). though it is in no relation to the current situation of os4 in terms of rtg technology or available games.

"FPGA emulators are waste of time and money.

The same is also true with the Amiga 1200.

AGA games were craps."

ok he says A1200 was a waste of time and money

the same is true for his PPC. Replacing old technology with another one partly even expensive one makes no sense either.

[OlafS3]

I can't speak about 68k, but the x86 version still crash a lot. Don't get me wrong, it's getting better and better but it's simply not there yet. Even the developers stress this since they, to their credit, don't want to give the impression that it's a finished product.

That said, all NG flavors crash. Using an NG Amiga as a main system is for fanatics and masochists like me

I will test Icaros Desktop in VMWare and see if it is so unstable like some (like you) claim because I assume that it heavily depends on where you run it.

And on 68k it does not crash at all (except you start a program that causes problems) so I have a problem with phrases like "AROS is unstable" or "X years behind". And when I then ask for more precise comments and not only bubbles I mostly (surprise surprise) get no answer. BTW the same happened when people talked about Magellan. It seems the less knowledge people have the more convinced are they :-). The last comment is not against you but general experience.

In this special case I ask for more precision, if you talk about f.e. Icaros Desktop running on X86 then name it this way. AROS is a lot of different platforms and what might be true for one platform (running on a specific hardware) is possible not true for another platform or hardware. Aeros runs on Linux Kernel (hosted) so even if something is true for Icaros it is perhaps not true for Aeros. Your beloved MorphOS has the advantage that it only runs on certain supported models, if it would be installable everywhere it would have similar problems.

But as I said I will install Icaros Desktop on VMWare and do extensive testing. If it is "crashy" like you wrote then it will also run unstable in VMWare because VMWare is nothing else than a simulated hardware, if not it is obvious that it haevily depends on configuration and hardware.

[OlafS3]

Some bull%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@! here, but also good points of views.

It doesn't make sense to buy X1000 just for playing old amiga games. They are emulated and that kind of emultion doesn't require much. Even Sam 440ep can emulate A500 without a problems. So if you are not a rich man, don't buy X1000 just for old games.

If you are planning to use old pruductivity software that is a different thing. 99% of them works very well with Amiga OS4 and really fast when comparing to any 68k Amiga.

What would I suggest to you is buying a second hand Sam 440ep or ep Flex. Really nice little mobo with very high quality. With that you get NG Amiga very economy price and you can see do you like it OR not. Only extra thing is whdload key file, if you want to play whdloadized games.

If you have used Amiga OS3.5/3.9 you most likely like it.

What is bull%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@! is that playing old 68k games would require some effort. OS4.1FE installs RunInUAE when you install OS, so you can start those games just double click even if they are NODOS disk images. With Amiga OS4 you will get working emulation eviroment as it have a required kickstart files, os disks, etc licenced. Unlike other NG machines.

As a bvonus Sam 440ep is very well supported by OS, ithas a all needed drivers, like 3d etc.

The advantage compared to AROS is not that much big anymore. The rom replacments work very well now and the majority of games work with it. You even need one set and not different like normally.