What's the Deal With CommodoreUSA?

[runequester]

Ive said before and people got mad, but a linux /base/ for an Amiga os is the only sane option left.

You have access to extremely wide base of hardware, with drivers available, you have access into modern applications etc.
Develop a desktop environment that genuinely feels and functions like a fully featured amiga environment and go from there. Heck, amithlon proved what could have been.

Yeah, it wont satisfy the purists but neither does anything else. So **** 'em.

[runequester]

Develop a desktop environment that genuinely feels and functions like a fully-featured Amiga environment, and then you'll only be left with all of the underlying structure that feels absolutely nothing like it and also it doesn't run any Amiga software. Yeah, sounds like a plan.

I guess this is one of those nebulous "what makes it an amiga" things.

On my end, I don't really care what this or that folder is called, what the file system happens to be called or whether the kernel does this or that.
The user interface and experience on the other hand, is what you engage with every moment you use the machine.

As far as amiga applications, port or emulate. Not really different from the OS4 people. Or build in some sort of compatibility layer like the Mac people did with their switch to Intel. Who knows?

Except for the part where Amithlon was nothing at all like Linux, sure.

It runs on a linux kernel, so I'd say it is entirely like linux. In fact, Im not sure if we're talking about two different things here?

"Linux" is the kernel. People glue all sorts of stuff on top of that, to make the typical desktop experience you get from the various distro's but those are specific examples, not the only possible answer.

[runequester]

I suppose this is a matter of perspective - if you think BSD with an Apple-designed desktop environment is essentially the same as classic Mac OS, I suppose a similar approach for the Amiga would make sense. The way I see it, though, there's already very little variety in operating systems - there doesn't need to be less, and certainly not by ditching the fundamentals of a perfectly decent existing OS.

I agree that more homogeneity (Im pretty sure I spelled that wrong) isn't desirable. The problem is that nothing is moving anywhere. AROS is the furthest ahead and only supports a tiny portion of aging hardware.

If the key to getting /anything/ happening, is to switch to where there's a path ahead, then I think that's the better option today.

Porting isn't that simple, though. Software can be ported between NG Amiga projects fairly easily because they're all based on the same API. Porting to/from a completely different OS like Linux requires quite a bit more work for the same result. A compatibility layer would be peachy, but doing one on Linux would mean reimplementing the whole AmigaOS API anyway.

It might be a ton of work for little gain, compared to simply having a relatively seamless emulation, I suppose.

[runequester]

It seems appropriate to repost something I posted a long time ago, when CUSA showed up first. (based on my old PC )


I am now offering a unique offer: The Amitendo64 for only 400 dollars!


Since there have been much talk and fuss about various competing retro computer brands lately, I thought I'd point out the various ways the amitendo64 is superior.


1: Hardware
No atom processors here. You get a good, old fashioned 2.4 ghz dual core, with 4 gigs of RAM.
We even toss in an optical drive, and a mouse!

2: Software
While the competition expects you to install linux yourself, the amitendo64 has it included already!

3: Run all the awesome games
Our competition only includes emulation of commodore machines. We boldly include Nintendo as well. So even if you grew up outside europe, you can still play games from when you were a kid

4: No dubious license questions
Many people feel concerned that competing retro computer offers may take advantage of licenses that have a complicated history. No worries! The Amitendo64 has NO licenses with anybody so you don't have to feel bad about anything!

5: Support of a trusted player in the commodore market
The amitendo64 comes with a full 20 year warranty. Just drive to the Commodore Amiga Iran office and we'll give you a full refund.

6: Doesn't look too new
Many people feel that the competing offers are too shiny, and don't "feel retro".
To insure against this, the amitendo64 is pretty dusty. We even made sure the fan is kind of grimey, so you'll have an authentic experience!

7: More advanced software.
Our unique brand of operating software (codenamed Kubuntu) is actually workbench 5.01 making it far superior than the unreleased alternatives from competing brands!

8: No pre orders
We will ship the amitendo64 to its eager recipient immediately upon payment.

9: Branding
Since we know branding is very important to people, the case will have "COMMODORE AMIGA IRAN" scrawled with a sharpie. No impersonal stickers here!

For mass orders (more than one), there is a 20 minute delay, as that's long it takes me to run over to best buy to restock.

[runequester]

The last thing the next gen of Amiga computers needs is a hand-me-down OS like Linux. It also could do without hand-me-down hardware. All innovative and new, from the motherboard up! THAT'S the only way to go.

As far as OSes go, Linux is quite possibly the first (or the last?) refuge of the lazy and unimaginative.

in a world where "custom" means "i changed the wallpaper" and the response to a software crash is to buy a new machine, I'm not sure how your statement makes any lick of sense.

[runequester]

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. If you're suggesting that variety in OSes doesn't matter because people are boring and lazy and have no taste these days, I don't think that's the kind of behavior one ought to make decisions based off of...
 
 

We've built entire industries around people having no taste. Why sir, you are almost downright un-american!
 
Joking aside, what I was getting at, and I do have the linux zealot hat on here for a moment, is that in a market where the two mainstream options (windows and os x) are basically locked down ecosystems with very little possibility for user input, complaining that Linux is the choice of the unimaginative and lazy seems very weird to me.
 
 
In the end though, I think there's sort of two different things at stake here.
1: What the hobby community is doing right now
2: Theoretical ideas of how to get a sort of Amiga experience that has any resemblance to the success of the 80's and 90's.
 
Im not sure those two points converge at all. Of course, maybe they don't have to.

[runequester]

1. Pure Amiga Hardware and OS.
2. Amiga hardware, no OS.
 
That way, the Linux-havers can have their precious OS, while the rest of us can build a truly astonishing machine! :p

That's kind of the thing though. Nobody is in a position to provide this on anything other than a hobby level and that doesn't seem to be changing.
 
Morph OS (the one I have the most experience with) is great... if you are coming to it with an Amiga experience in mind. It's hopeless for a mainstream computer user, for a whole host of reasons I won't go into here.

[runequester]

Seems like most claims of "normal people won't get this" just boil down to "people who are expecting Windows and don't want to hear any different won't get this," in my observation...

Colour me jaded, but I have seen tons of people "switch" to OS X or Linux expecting "windows except minus the bad parts" and switched back promptly because of course that was a path for disaster.
Advocates do a tremendously poor job at setting realistic expectations about what you are getting yourself into.
 
I'd not feel very comfortable sending something from windows XP to hunting down MUI classes for a 20 year old email app to work
 
 
 
 
On your previous note, I agree with you that "amiga" in 2012 doesn't have to be a "mainstream" computer thing to be worthwhile. There's a significant faction that feels it should be or can be, and I don't think that's at all plausible given the situation right now. None of the current players have that ability.
 
That's kinda the point I was getting at earlier, and I think I screwed up explaining it.

[runequester]

Why would you want to use a 20 year olde-mail app? don't use an e-mail app?
 
Actually, Fab toldme how to get Comcast's e-mail working under OWB, so I don't use an e-mail app.
 
Thanks Fab (you're fab).
 
Most of the rest of the 68K software I use just works.

Fab is pretty wicked.
 
I happen to really like YAM, so I use it on MOS. My email is a gmail account which works decently (if sometimes a bit quirky) under MOS.

[runequester]

Because if you want mainstream penetration, 800 dollar machines barely cracking 1 ghz, or 10 year old mac's aren't going to cut it.

And that's the biggest barrier to anything except "pretty neat hobby": hardware.

Sure, someone could come along, whip up a range of good, supported hardware with a supported OS and applications but by then, our robot overlords will have harvested all our brains anyways.

[runequester]

What you'd need is:
 
A hardware platform (this means chips, processors, video, audio, all the junk that goes into it)
(made by who ? What chips? What manufacturers?)
 
An operating system to run it on.
(by who? What kernel? What will set it apart?)
 
A software/application framework around it.
(from who? Which companies will invest?)
 
Interoperability with various established standards to permit the machine to actually be usable in todays world.

[runequester]

I think AGA was less the issue than sheer processing power, honestly.

[runequester]

I think they really underestimated the level of demand too. Happens to a lot of kickstarter projects too.