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Author Topic: Amiga stability?  (Read 9739 times)

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Offline Thorham

Re: Amiga stability?
« on: December 03, 2011, 09:50:52 PM »
Quote from: commodorejohn;670072
if you want stability in older computers, you just can't beat DOS.
You could always try to look for alternatives with memory protection (assuming your CPU has an MMU of course).
 

Offline Thorham

Re: Amiga stability?
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2011, 09:59:20 PM »
Only serious alternative on the Amiga is to write a new OS from scratch, but there are two problems:

1) Someone has to write it. Not necessarily a big deal, but still.
2) Even if successful, new software will be needed that's not just a port of existing open source software.
 

Offline Thorham

Re: Amiga stability?
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2011, 10:17:49 PM »
Quote from: commodorejohn;670082
Yep. And it seems like most people figure that'd be more trouble than it's worth...
Indeed. The only good reason I can come up with to do it, is to see how good you can actually make such an OS while keeping it fast.
Quote from: ajlwalker;670084
Personally the crashes didn't bother me that much as I always saved my work regularly.  It was just something you did back then.
It's ALWAYS a good idea to save your work often, even on a 100% stable system, for the simple fact that the user can do things wrong, too, not just the software ;)
 

Offline Thorham

Re: Amiga stability?
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2011, 07:39:39 PM »
Quote from: desiv;670185
That's like comparing TOS to the Amiga Kickstart.
Both of those were very stable.  Both did nothing, but allowed other programs to do things.
Right. Kickstart doesn't do anything. Except set up a whole multitasking environment with various things going on in the background...
Quote from: desiv;670185
In that situation, GEM was a much more mature product, and didn't have to deal with the memory issues from a non-protected multitasking system.
More mature... and of course not even remotely as powerful as kickstart.

Please do your homework ;)
 

Offline Thorham

Re: Amiga stability?
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2011, 09:57:34 PM »
Quote from: _ThEcRoW;670205
Kickstart on his own has no use without the os,
Kickstart IS the OS :rolleyes:
 

Offline Thorham

Re: Amiga stability?
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2011, 03:03:44 AM »
Quote from: matthey;670248
I like to think of the Amiga more like an AC Cobra with no air bags, traction control, abs breaks, power steering, or other non essential bloat. It's bare bones and slower than some of today's cars and you can kill yourself in a jiffy but it's worth the ride ;).
Couldn't agree more. A Model T Ford is more like the C64 OS.
 

Offline Thorham

Re: Amiga stability?
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2011, 11:16:14 AM »
Quote from: thegman;670282
Obviously compared to modern machines, Amigas were/are very unreliable.
Unreliable? Right, that's why they still work after 20+ years :rolleyes:
« Last Edit: December 05, 2011, 01:18:00 PM by Thorham »
 

Offline Thorham

Re: Amiga stability?
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2011, 03:05:29 PM »
Quote from: _ThEcRoW;670303
@crumb

You said it, a disk. Without a disk, on his own, the kisckstart is unable to do anything.
Not if you boot without a startup sequence using the boot menu. In this case the core of the OS is setup and you get a command line interface. Basically the OS is now functional. The only thing you can't do is run programs, because they're not available ;)
 

Offline Thorham

Re: Amiga stability?
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2011, 11:12:10 PM »
Quote from: billt;670561
Hmmm. What do you think is "happening" in the background of an FPGA design? Once it's configured, all that is fixed. Configuration 1's stay 1's, and configuration 0's stay 0's.
Don't have a clue, but the fact that there is a background in the first place is what matters. For a circuit in an FPGA to work, extra components are needed, and whether they are as active as a software emulation or not isn't important.
Quote from: billt;670561
In an ASIC, does it make a difference if I use a library cell carrying the name D flipflop which serves the function of a D flipflop, or if I do an ECO design change, have no empty spaces to put another "real" D flipflop library cell that I somehow forgot, and have to combine a handful of NAND gates that I do have room for here and there, in order to effect a D flipflop function instead? Or, oh crap, that NAND gate should have been an AND gate. The AND (6 transistors) is too big to directly replace the NAND gate (4 transistors), but I have room over there for an inverter.
Can't say much about ASICs, but if they have overhead components needed for a circuit to work, while those components aren't part of the circuit design, then perhaps an ASIC is an emulation as well.
Quote from: billt;670561
Do a NAND plus an inverter emulate an AND gate, or implement it in an ASIC?
Well, you can do an AND gate using a single relay or two transistors. Using two components made of transistors to make another that can actually be made of fewer transistors seems like imitating the behavior of that made part.
Quote from: billt;670561
An emulated computer needs software. Some group of instructions that are continuously fetched from one of several types/levels of storage somewhere, decoded, ALUed, reading values from parameters and writing values to register or memory destinations, in order to effect the target opcode format, ALU, instruction decode, registers, memory map, etc. In what way do you think this activity is continuously occurring in the FPGA underneath your logic circuit?
In that way? Not at all. Don't ask me how it does work, but it should be obvious that FPGAs and computers do things very differently.
Quote from: billt;670561
And another thought about "fixing" an FPGA. We'd once looked into but never sold a metal mask fixation option for our FPGAs, which would replace the configuration SRAMS and the LUT memory with metal hardwired 1's and 0's, should a security concerned customer want to do that to get a fixed die design instead of going through the effort of ASIC conversion. If I had a Minimig core designed to work well in my FPGA, and I did this metal mask replecement, most of the die is the same as the reprogammable FPGA, all those multiplexors are still there exactly the same way, but I can no longer change their controls, have I de-emulaterified this metal hardwired thing?
No, because there are more parts to replace with metal than just the SRAMS and LUT memory.
Quote from: shoggoth;670565
Thorham, what about CPLDs and ASICs. Are those also considered emulations of the real thing? I mean, in a CPLD, you don't have, say, two transistors which are directly, mechanically connected (such as using a printed circuit board that's custom made, which the components are soldered onto).
Don't know about CPLDs, but in general, if you have a programmable device in which you can make a circuit design actually work, then it's an emulation (also because of extra components needed which aren't part of the design).