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Author Topic: Ben Hermans still staunchly against x86  (Read 43528 times)

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Offline desiv

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Re: Ben Hermans still staunchly against x86
« on: October 25, 2010, 11:16:56 PM »
Quote from: ferrellsl;587029
Thanks for saying what many of us have been wanting to say for quite a while.  Watch out though.  Now you can expect to be flamed by the lunatic fringe you've just attacked.....or the moderators who will censor you for "trolling" because you're not "politically correct" in regard to "Amiga-speak".
Censorship?
You keep using that word.
I do not think it means what you think it means.  :roflmao:

The fact that you can post that, kind of implies that they aren't censoring you...

While I disagree with the above, he's allowed his opinion.
I'd prefer it be done without the condescension, but let's just call it hyperbole..

It's obvious not everyone who preferred Motorolla at the time was a silly kid.  The "oversize loser" comment was (IMHO) put there just to get people upset.  Could be wrong.  I'm sure he had a valid sampling methodology to justify his claim. :)

I do wonder, what were the JPEG times for those 2 systems?
How did they compare at the time?

Does anyone have a 486 anymore to be able to run a test?
Of course, without the same software on both machines, it might be more a test of the software.
I would think a 68030 might hold it's own against a 486/25, but I could be wrong..

desiv
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Amiga 500 w/ 2M CHIP and 8M FAST RAM, DCTV, AEHD floppy, and 1084S.
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Offline desiv

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Re: Ben Hermans still staunchly against x86
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2010, 12:02:01 AM »
Quote from: the_leander;587052
.. by virtue of the fact that the 486 will be using a graphics card almost certainly superior to either ECS or AGA.

True.  Not only was Intel pulling ahead based on shear power about that time, but the graphics cards on the PCs were just starting to come into their own a bit.

Although, sheer power can't be totally written off...
Some of the AGA 060 demos by The Black Lotus are just amazing...

Or so they appear on youtube.  No 060 to test them..  :(

desiv
Amiga 1200 w/ ACA1230/28 - 4G CF, MAS Player, ext floppy, and 1084S.
Amiga 500 w/ 2M CHIP and 8M FAST RAM, DCTV, AEHD floppy, and 1084S.
Amiga 1000 w/ 4M FAST RAM, DUAL CF hard drives, external floppy.
 

Offline desiv

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Re: Ben Hermans still staunchly against x86
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2010, 04:10:20 AM »
Quote from: ferrellsl;587068
I wasn't implying that I was being censored nor was I trying to be condescending to paolone.  I'm not sure why you'd think otherwise.
No, I meant that paolone's tone was (IMHO) condescending, not yours.
I mixed my pronouns, sorry...  :confused:

And my comment about censoring was aimed at your post, but it was also including paolone's post as well, as I don't believe either will garnish a censor from the MODs.
My personal opinion; there was a lot of over-reaction about the "censorship" card.  I could be wrong, who knows?  :biglaugh:

Quote from: ferrellsl;587068
As for 486 vs 68k performance, I have an A1200 with a 68030 accelerator (CSA 1250 12-Gauge) clocked at 50 Mhz and ran benchmarks against a 486DX 33.  Performance is about equal even with the huge difference in clock speed.  So paolone's remarks are spot-on in spite of all the irrational remarks that will be made about the 68k family and how it's "superior".  It certainly is NOT superior.

I haven't yet seen any "irrational remarks."  I tend to wait until something actually happens before I react to it...  Takes the fun out of it sometimes tho.  :laugh1:

I do think there are some aspects of the Motorola line that were superior personally.  But I'm not really a CPU guy.  Most of the advantages I felt might well have just been the Amiga's design.
As for benchmarks, they are tricky.  I'm willing to be that for any benchmark you find that shows Intel's were better, there will be benchmarks that show just the opposite.
It's not that either is wrong.  It's just that there are so many possible things to benchmark.
Benchmarks are kind of like statistics in that respect.

Personally, I go way back.
I had an Amiga and I had PCs.  My Amiga 500 "felt" much faster to me than the PCs I had/worked on.  But it was tricky because I was always doing different things on them.  So, it's a very personal performance metric. :rofl:

I do know that for me, about the time I was using my Amiga 1200, I could feel the PCs outpacing the Amiga, especially in the applications side.  Doom type games, graphic crunching apps, etc..  
But I would use my Workbench on my A1200 and then at work, I would use Windows 3.1..  
I much preferred the feel of Workbench.  It "felt" much faster to me.  So, to me at the time, the Amiga with the slower processor was faster than the PC with the much higher clockrate.

Now, much of this was actually Workbench and the Amiga's hardware design.

But that's how I viewed the Intel/Motorola comparison at the time.

Irrational?  Maybe..  

Now, for pure crunching numbers, the Intel could probably beat the Motorola.  But it just felt so much faster on the Amiga..

Then again, I also used Mac's really early, and they felt really slow to me.
(Again, MY OPINION at the time)
So, I should have probably stopped and said "it's more about what you're doing with the CHIP than the CHIP itself."

and... er..  Wow.. WAY off topic here.. ummm..  and..
that's why I think Ben is against the x86!!  :biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh:
(Wow, back to topic at the last second.)

desiv
Amiga 1200 w/ ACA1230/28 - 4G CF, MAS Player, ext floppy, and 1084S.
Amiga 500 w/ 2M CHIP and 8M FAST RAM, DCTV, AEHD floppy, and 1084S.
Amiga 1000 w/ 4M FAST RAM, DUAL CF hard drives, external floppy.
 

Offline desiv

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Re: Ben Hermans still staunchly against x86
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2010, 04:36:30 PM »
Quote from: paolone;587179
And, well, at the time I realized that if you wanted to have a PC that looked well in graphics and sound, you'd have to spend a lot more than on a Amiga
Although I think I held out a bit longer, it was the same for me basically.

Part of it was the fact that everything I did that I was paid for was PC. (and some Mac)

But most of it was the cost of an accelerator with RAM for my Amiga.  For that, I was able to piece together a PC (I think it was an IBM blue lightening chip, which was what, a 486/40 or 50??) with a CDRom (1X, whoo hoo!) and a cheapo sound card.  I'm sure the hard drive was a hand me down from someone's upgrade.
(I was able to repair a VGA monitor (bad cable) that I got for free, which helped.)

Except for DOOM types, I really missed the Amiga games a lot, but I was starting to do a lot of Foxbase (and a bit of FoxPro for Windows, can't remember exactly when that started) and needed a machine to do that...

I don't remember thinking VGA was better than Amiga AGA.  Not until a video card upgrade or 2.  But that's when I realized that the lack of upgradable video in the Amiga 500/1200 was a killer..  Mac owners were totally fine with buying a new Mac when a faster one was available.
PC owners could upgrade as long as they could.  As a tinkerer, I liked that.
And as someone working multiple jobs, I couldn't afford expensive upgrades.



desiv
Amiga 1200 w/ ACA1230/28 - 4G CF, MAS Player, ext floppy, and 1084S.
Amiga 500 w/ 2M CHIP and 8M FAST RAM, DCTV, AEHD floppy, and 1084S.
Amiga 1000 w/ 4M FAST RAM, DUAL CF hard drives, external floppy.
 

Offline desiv

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Re: Ben Hermans still staunchly against x86
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2010, 03:00:44 AM »
Quote from: Tension;587592
IBM and Commodore had a deal where OS/2 was allowed to use the GUI from Workbench, and CBM could use the Rexx system.
I know it's the Internet so I'm not saying this site is accurate, but that is what I heard as well.  It's on this site:

http://www.os2bbs.com/os2news/os2warp.html

Quote from: Teh Interwebs
In this timeframe, a deal was made with Commodore.  Commodore licensed  IBM's REXX scripting language for inclusion in their AmigaOS, and IBM  took many GUI design ideas from the AmigaOS for their new GUI.  With the  release of OS/2 2.0,

desiv
Amiga 1200 w/ ACA1230/28 - 4G CF, MAS Player, ext floppy, and 1084S.
Amiga 500 w/ 2M CHIP and 8M FAST RAM, DCTV, AEHD floppy, and 1084S.
Amiga 1000 w/ 4M FAST RAM, DUAL CF hard drives, external floppy.