Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Author Topic: Shark Os4  (Read 7882 times)

Description:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Piru

  • \' union select name,pwd--
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2002
  • Posts: 6946
    • Show all replies
    • http://www.iki.fi/sintonen/
Re: Shark Os4
« on: June 19, 2004, 01:53:00 PM »
To me it seems like Elbox is cornered.

There are no new classic Amiga systems being made, and old Amigas are dying at alarming rate. Most of the classic users have already bought the PCI solution, the market is saturated. No new PCI bridge can offer such new features it would trigger new purchases (few more PCI slots doesn't quite make it).

Further Elbox has claimed OS4 upgrade path thru Mediator with SharkPPC. The solution has never been seen actually running anything. Personally I think this was just a tactic to secure more Mediator sales. I predict Shark will never really appear, possibly Elbox blaming AmigaInc(KMOS?)/Hyperion for non-co-operation.

Not to mention the fact Poland is now part of EU, and such Elbox must now follow the EU regulations. Pulling another illegal stunt like the "RDB-trashing protection" will not be possible without consequences.
 

Offline Piru

  • \' union select name,pwd--
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2002
  • Posts: 6946
    • Show all replies
    • http://www.iki.fi/sintonen/
Re: Shark Os4
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2004, 07:06:25 PM »
@Effy

A1200 Mediator can't do DMA to system memory, so (U)DMA modes are out. And even if it did, Z3 transfer rate is too slow for UDMA. Plain PIO modes suck all cpu, and with the IO speed for Mediator the results would be more than disappointing.

Probably that's why there's no PCI ide card driver.
 

Offline Piru

  • \' union select name,pwd--
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2002
  • Posts: 6946
    • Show all replies
    • http://www.iki.fi/sintonen/
Re: Shark Os4
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2004, 07:20:36 PM »
Quote
But the transfers between pci cards is 132 Mb/sec, not ???

That's what they say, it's the theoretical maximum. Haven't seen any actual benchmarks, however. Any benchmarks apps to run on Mediator that benchmark transfer speed between two PCI cards?

I don't believe 132MB/sec until I see it.

Quote
So the transfers from the hd that are connected to the IDE pci controller to the Shark PPC pci card are maximum 132 Mb/sec, not ???

Not many HDs reach that speed, nor does UDMA interface.
 

Offline Piru

  • \' union select name,pwd--
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2002
  • Posts: 6946
    • Show all replies
    • http://www.iki.fi/sintonen/
Re: Shark Os4
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2004, 01:40:25 PM »
Quote
You dont need use uae for play demos

Sure. You just need to shutdown and boot without Shark. Much better than UAE, agreed.

Quote
you can boot from diskdrive

With Shark disabled, sure.

SharkPPC won't have direct access to Amiga side of the system, so it's quite impossible to run Amiga HW banging apps from within the Shark. Naturally you can boot direct off the Amiga, but then you lose Shark again.

This being the case, doesn't it make much more sense to have plain A1200 (maybe 030 accelerator) for games, and another system for new system conform things? It's cheaper than Mediator + SharkPPC, too.
 

Offline Piru

  • \' union select name,pwd--
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2002
  • Posts: 6946
    • Show all replies
    • http://www.iki.fi/sintonen/
Re: Shark Os4
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2004, 05:53:30 PM »
Quote
Actually Elbox has said that the Shark (or was that the Shark + only?) was an all computer in itself, with access to classic hardware.

Ok, so far so good. SharkPPC is a standalone system on PCI card.

Now here's the tricky part: It's said to have full access to Amiga custom chipset. But that will never work.

Lets imagine as simple thing as a game/demo reading a trackfull of data from a floppy. It will write custom registers to set up DMA for read operation. The address is chip memory. How if the game would be running on SharkPPC system, the address would be local memory there (but lets assume both systems have chip memory mapped 1:1, so addresses remain the same).

Now lets assume that magically the custom registers reads & writes are relayed between the two machines (including new state of custom read-once registers). The final register write initializes DMA transfers from floppy to memory (this happens on the A1200). Once the floppy DMA is finished, the data has been transferred. Next the read routine will use blitter to decode the MFM encoded data read off the floppy. Track has been loaded.

But, here comes the problem. The custom DMA and blitter DMA work on the A1200 memory space, not SharkPPC's. There is no way the system knows the data resulting from the blit should somehow be magically transferred back to SharkPPC!

This applies to other DMA, too. For example writing to a floppy would require the data to somehow be transferred to A1200 first, before the DMA begins.

I ignored several other problems to get this far (actual DMA):

- How can SharkPPC know the value of Custom registers that can be read only once? Reading once loses the status forever.

- How can interrupts be relayed?

- How can SharkPPC ensure the emulation and Amiga 1200 status remain synced?


Conclusion: SharkPPC cannot have access to Amiga custom registers.
 

Offline Piru

  • \' union select name,pwd--
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2002
  • Posts: 6946
    • Show all replies
    • http://www.iki.fi/sintonen/
Re: Shark Os4
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2004, 09:44:22 PM »
Quote
How come there is a working version of OS4 on the Blizzard PPC in wich DeluxePaint works fine? (I really don't know but by this logic it should not work right?)

No, it's not the same. Here the CPU and custom chips are on the same system (memory, custom regs, dma etc).

BPPC is directly connected to system bus, shark is not.
 

Offline Piru

  • \' union select name,pwd--
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2002
  • Posts: 6946
    • Show all replies
    • http://www.iki.fi/sintonen/
Re: Shark Os4
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2004, 09:52:11 PM »
@Jose

Anything using DMA, interrupts, or depending on read-once custom register values would not work.

DMA examples: Paula audio, Floppy read/write, blitting, copper, planar display.
Interrupt examples: Any code programming interrupts directly.

In short: Nothing would work.