Workbench Disk Sets... What Would Be The Best Way To Obtain Them...

[Piru]

It's a sorry and very sad state of affairs when a company like Cloanto who produces PC software goes to all this bother to prevent remaining Amiga users from being able to enjoy their hobby in relative peace. Obviously just for the sake of making money from PC users and are quite happy to tread all over genuine Amiga hardware users in the process, all this just to make a quick buck despite the damage it causes to real Amiga enthusiasts...

You sir are talking out of your -=Moderated=-. Cloanto has been contributing to Amiga since 1986. They even have their own directory in aminet. They've released their Amiga software for free (including the excellent Personal Paint). Just the cloanto web page alone is an invaluable source information, say for example http://www.amigaforever.com/tutorials/migration/

Your attempts to paint them as some evil PC guys is laughable.

[Piru]

Why thank you sir for your usual laughable trite remarks...

You didn't refute any of those remarks. Why not?

As for Cloanto trying to prevent your copyright infringement.. They're protecting their investment. I would do the same.

[Piru]

and there is nothing in your statement for me to comment on that I didn't already know.

From this we can conclude that you intentionally try to demonize them.

Cloanto being exposed for what they really are

Exposed for being a sensible business? I knew that already. It would be stupid for Cloanto not to defend their rights.

Now I know some of you seem to regard yourselves as some kind of legal experts in all fields mentioned on this site

Copyright is quite simple topic. What you're doing is deliberate copyright infringement in an attempt to get attention. Now that you got it, you started a deliberate smear campaign against whoever tried to defend their legal rights. You don't need to be a legal expert to see though your hypocrisy.

but the fact is you are nothing more than idiots who think your holier than though morals should be imposed on the rest of us... :lol:

Forums have rules that are not necessarily related to any laws or morals. As far as I am concerned you can be as stupid as you like outside amiga.org, I couldn't care less.

[Piru]

Once again you're wrong as usual, I have tried to contact everyone who may own the legal rights to Workbench or the ability to issue of a distribution licence with no response

Anyone with an understanding of the copyright law would conclude that they do not have the right to distribute the content then.

No-one is obliged to answer anyone regarding licensing requests. Not answering does not make it legal to distribute the content.

This isn't rocket science.

I fail to understand what CUSA has to do with any of this... :confused:

CUSA used the very same tactic you use. They redistributed copyrighted material without proper license. When confronted with the fact they used the very same excuse you now use.

[Piru]

Where you're concerned then that doesn't matter one bit to me personally and where I choose to be (in your opinion) as stupid as I like is my business not yours...

Most certainly. I'm just a user here, and you can certainly ignore my wish that you'd take this nonsense (and yourself) somewhere else.

In my humble opinion this site would do better without your contribution.

[Piru]

I am not in this to make money from anyone...

Right, you're doing it for the attention. And for you it doesn't matter that in the process you smear one of the last remaining active amiga software companies (lets not kid ourself: cloanto would have been long dead had they not evolved to retromarket like they did)

Anyone owning a classic hasn't had any moral problems downloading the WB adfs before. They didn't need you as their white knight.

[Piru]

a pitiful and shambolic mess that Amiga users have had to put up with for all these years from ... ignorant folk like yourself who are more interested in PC's than the Amiga

You certainly have the gift of clairvoyance. I salute thee, Nostradamus of our time...

Or not. If you're trying to make a fool of yourself you're doing quite well.

[Piru]

While examples, lets go thru them in the context.

copyright expiration

That's typically 70-90 years after the death of the author, and thus doesn't apply here.

fair use

Clearly doesn't apply here.

orphaned work

This one doesn't exist in copyright law.

And, the fact that law regarding copyright varies from country to country.

Berne convention applies in most countries. There aren't any major differences I'd say.

[Piru]

How does Cloanto know Franko doesn't have a license to distribute them?

The most obvious way would be to ask from the licensor.

Does CLoanto "own" the Copyright so do they even "have" the right to complain?

Most (if not all) contracts drafted by Amiga Inc appear to contain a clause that requires the other party to protect the rights of Amiga Inc. This could be seen in case of Amithlon for example (see http://www.amigamccc.org/journal/0206amit.htm). While pure speculation it's not far fetched to assume similar clause in the Cloanto contract.

We don't own the copyright, so do we have a right to complain to Cloanto's ISP because we suspect they do not have a license to distribute and demand proof they do?

You can always try, but in the end your claim won't have any legal merit.

Second of all regarding Franko and a license for distributing copyright, I think you are missing the point.  I think basically Franko is distributing these Workbench disks under "Public Domain".

He has no right to place them in public domain.

Who's burden is it prove these are public domain?  

Franko's, of course.

I think the problem is here, it's possible Cloanto has a license to distribute Kickstart images and disks, but at the same time the license is either made by ill-intentioned crooks from AI that know they don't hold the copyright or just ignorant of the fact that the disks went into the public domain 15+ years ago.

Either way, worst case scenario, if the Workbench is still copyrighted, I fail to see how a third party that just a has a license to sell a product can act on a copyright holders behalf.

If workbench or kickstart would be in public domain it would need to be clearly stated as such by the copyright holder. Since this is not the case they are not.

If there's no valid license then no-one can distribute the work, except the copyright holder. The default is to protect the rights of the author(s).

[Piru]

Ah yes, forgot all about this excellent FAQ cloanto has set up. See this:

Distribution of Amiga ROM and OS Files

And while we're at it, I think this confirms that Cloanto indeed has a license:

Source: https://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0BxlY9g_OfLqDZTQyNGFkYzEtZDI5Zi00YzcxLThhODYtODcyZTg0M2I4MzQ1

[Piru]

It's fair use.

By which definition? Commentary? Criticism? News reporting? Research? Teaching? Parody?

[Piru]

So if I want to distribute Workbench disks who should I contact?

Good question. It is however beside the point. There's no obligation for the licensor to advertise themselves.

Even though you don't have this information or valid license due to lack of it it doesn't mean Kickstart or Workbench would somehow become Public Domain or distributing them "Fair Use".

[Piru]

So if a person wants to distribute Workbench disks are they are they not suppose to contact Cloanto?

I don't know.

Are we changing the story now?

Who?

So to get a license I do or I do not contact Cloanto?

Beats me.

[Piru]

So you contact AI from links/email their webpage for 6 months and no replies.

You contact Petro from his facebook, and get bad translations that says, "I give free long time ago."

You find no other records.

You put the disks up on a site for people with old rotting disks for some obsolete turd machines to DL to make backups from.


You get crapped on.


Hmmmm..... seems fair.

Yes. It's a fair response for such stupidity.

Seriously though, morality and legality hardly ever meet. It sucks, but such is life.. unfair.

[Piru]

if I want to distribute Workbench disks Piru, who should I contact?

I don't know.

Again I should point out that regardless what you might consider moral thing to do might not necessarily be legal.