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Author Topic: Interview with Trevor Dickinson  (Read 20636 times)

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Offline Piru

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Re: Interview with Trevor Dickinson
« on: May 09, 2010, 12:52:39 PM »
Quote from: KimmoK;557285
It will be one of the cheapest Amigas I have ever bought.
Interesting things these price comparisons. Especially since the HW prices don't stay static.

What kind of Amiga was more expensive really (lets talk about actual value of the money and relative HW prices of similar spec systems from the period)?
« Last Edit: May 09, 2010, 12:58:29 PM by Piru »
 

Offline Piru

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Re: Interview with Trevor Dickinson
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2010, 01:18:58 PM »
Quote from: ddniUK;557305
Ok since we are talking comparative value then we should use the average UK house price as a base.
That's one way of measuring it. Not necessarily the one I was looking after. Computer value doesn't exactly follow the same pattern as house prices. ;-)
« Last Edit: May 09, 2010, 01:21:26 PM by Piru »
 

Offline Piru

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Re: Interview with Trevor Dickinson
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2010, 03:29:04 PM »
Quote from: clusteruk;557328
The reality is, £1500 is not a lot if it earns its keep somehow doing things better or differently than other platforms.
The thing is it really doesn't. Not on any level to justify such a price tag.

The truth is that Windows, Mac OS X and even Linux beat the crap out of any NG amigoid system in any given task.

£1500 is a lot of money for just a "feel good" hobby system.
 

Offline Piru

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Re: Interview with Trevor Dickinson
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2010, 04:34:27 PM »
Quote from: AppleHammer;557347
If we compare it to second hand Blizzard (or Cysberstorm) PPC cards selling on Ebay, then the price tag suddenly becomes very attractive indeed.
If we compare it against second hand PowerPC Macintosh hardware selling on Ebay, then the price tag suddenly becomes extremely unattractive indeed.

I've gotten two Mac Minis (one 1.5GHz with 64MB Video Memory) and a PowerBook 1.67GHz 2GB RAM etc for about half of that £1500 (granted that doesn't include the OS license, as obviously I don't need to pay for those).
« Last Edit: May 09, 2010, 04:40:46 PM by Piru »
 

Offline Piru

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Re: Interview with Trevor Dickinson
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2010, 07:15:44 PM »
Quote from: AppleHammer;557368
The only issue I see with the second hand MAC idea is that I'm not sure for how long the prices would stay low, nor for how long they'd still be widely available.
They'll easily outlive any custom amiga HW offerings. Try to find AmigaONE from Ebay. Now try to find Mac Mini G4 from Ebay.

See?

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If OS4 were released for old MAC systems then potentially there could be a "mad dash" for them on Ebay and that itself would push up the prices, especially if the MAC people got wind of their new-found desirable status.
The number of PowerPC Macintosh hardware easily outnumbers any potential userbase for AmigaOS4, and thus the prices would stay reasonable.

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There is also the issue that the MAC systems are less powerful than the Amiga machine we're likely to see from AEON and a lot less expandable.
That remains to be seen. 1.5GHz G4 isn't to be sneezed at, especially when MorphOS is so much faster than OS4 on the same HW. Later MorphOS is probably going to support even faster Macintosh hardware (I have a 1.67GHz powerbook running MorphOS already... but when that will be available for end users remains to be seen).

Also, the initial OS4 will use only one of the cores, and is likely to run in 32bit mode, and there won't be 3d acceleration for the included ATI card. That's somewhat of a bummer if you compare it against the Mac MorphOS offerings.

Expandability isn't much of an issue since the HW driver support for all amigoid systems is abysmal anyway. OS4 still lacks proper USB2 drivers for example.

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Also, if the X1000 turns out to be well accepted by the Amiga community, it could be securing future hardware developments.
Even if the whole remaining Amiga community would get one it'd still be highly debatable if the project would be profitable. Yes, it really is that bad. HW projects are insanely expensive to pull off.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2010, 07:20:38 PM by Piru »
 

Offline Piru

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Re: Interview with Trevor Dickinson
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2010, 08:43:18 PM »
Quote from: AppleHammer;557384
Yes, that is correct, but it is the intention of the OS4 Dev team to implement these features in the future.

Like the 3D system overhaul that has been dragging for years now? Or the inability to get even 8500/9100 3D working with the current system? The ATI card intended to be used with X1000 currently has only basic 2D support. It doesn't look too bright IMHO.

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The migration to 64-bit and also multiple cores are very significant milestones so I think it's fair that a relatively small dev team with limited resources are going to take quite some time to pull it off. In the meantime, at least we'll have the necessary hardware to benefit from these features as and when they become available.

That somewhat reminds me of people getting earlybird setups to run Linux. I would never do that, get extremely expensive hardware to limp by with fraction of the HW capabilities.

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It would be no good Hyperion releasing an update supporting dual core if nobody in the Amiga community had a dual core machine to use. This way they can target their development to a specific platform that they know will be in use by people interested in AmigaOS. I think this is the only realistic way they could move things forwards.

Well obviously they think that they can. I don't. The 64bit target will just splinter their platform even more. It already is split into small sections, for instance ones with Altivec and ones without. With such hideously expensive platform they'll be driving themselves into corner they can't back out of.

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Well, if MorphOS is your main interest then you're already in a position to use good, cheap, second hand Mac hardware and as such you shouldn't be too disappointed that OS4 isn't going to run on it?

Correct, I am not disappointed. I know a lot of OS4 users are. It's evident enough looking at the reception the Mac mini leak got. It seems the conditioning has now worked though. The new mantra "2nd hand is evil, must have new hw" seems to have been conditioned into the minds of the remaining faithfuls.

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It's clear to me that >£1500 for a system that runs OS4 isn't going to make much sense to you if your main interest is MorphOS and you've already bought some MAC hardware to run it on. That's fine. Good luck to MorphOS, I hope it runs very well on those machines and I hope people get a lot of fun out of it.

It runs great and I'm doing my best to make it run even better.

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But, it seems to me that some people who promote MorphOS are a little disgruntled about the X1000 announcement because they don't want a situation where OS4 can be considered to be running on better hardware than MorphOS.

It would seem like that for some, yes.

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Of course, nobody on the MorphOS side is going to admit to that, but it's certainly the impression I get from some people.  I don't understand why, because as long as you're getting cheap MAC hardware to run your OS on (which, as you pointed out, the performance is not to be sneezed at - it's pretty damned good), then you should just be happy and content with that.

They're probably worried OS4 users are going for yet another "trap", whatever that means. Like they were warned of the problems of the Articia. Those warnings were blatantly ignored, while now it's an accepted fact that Articia was a major disaster. The whole quality issues of the original AmigaOne series were major contributing factor to failure of the project (yes, I consider it a failure: For instance manufacturer warranties weren't respected and the dealers were left to carry the burden. This isn't something that is recalled fondly among the dealers I can reassure you).

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If other people are willing to pay >£1500 for the X1000 system to run OS4 on, and you don't want it anyway, then why should you feel the need to pour scorn on it?

I presume these people want to warn OS4 users about yet another such incident, quite possibly unwarranted.

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I'm sure if it were the other way around (MorphOS guys getting a nice £1500 system to run their OS on) it would be some individuals on the AmigaOS side of the fence trying to down play it and ridicule it instead.

Quite possibly.
 

Offline Piru

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Re: Interview with Trevor Dickinson
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2010, 08:49:50 PM »
Quote from: Karlos;557395
In all fairness, this isn't really about hardware longevity as it is numbers, is it?
Of course. But I also consider Apple HW superior to any AmigaOne. Build quality, durability, parts & repair availability are superior. It's a win-win situation.

Well, except that you can't get the PowePC Macintosh under warranty. But it's so cheap that you can actually replace the HW easily. The spare parts will be available for years to come, which is not going to happen for a computer with a production run of thousands.

So to recap, yes, it's mostly about numbers. And it's a good thing.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2010, 08:53:11 PM by Piru »
 

Offline Piru

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Re: Interview with Trevor Dickinson
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2010, 09:52:41 PM »
Quote from: asymetrix;557408
I wont buy MorphOS on dead end hardware.

Following this argument you won't buy OS4 on X1000 either, as it's even more dead end.