Amazing! New A500+ kit available at A1k!

[psxphill]

This is forbidden by law.... all parts and the system itself is not CE or ROHS certified, which is nessesery in europe.... so only that way is possible... a private, selfmade community project.....

IMO it's a spare part for repairing a computer produced before 2006, which are exempt from ROHS.

I haven't found anything that says ROHS certification isn't required if you restrict access to the product to users of a specific web site. They don't even let you side step it by giving away the product for free.

[psxphill]

Your point? ROHS is pretty much required everywhere in commercial products, but as you've pointed out, this isn't a commercial product.

I personally think ROHS would disagree as you are giving them money. Although ROHS also covers equipment given away for free, you only have to make the equipment available (which they are).

However ROHS doesn't cover re-using equipment sold before 2006. MOS/CSG chips made today on the same process would fail ROHS, but the ones manufactured in the 80's and 90's are fine. I expect the PCB would be fine, or the PCB house would be out of business by now.

So I don't know what the fuss over ROHS is. They certainly haven't found a loop hole by only selling it on a1k.org.

As a spare part for an old computer, I don't think CE testing would be required either.

[psxphill]

Although I have to wonder how the makers of the mostly finished Kiwi 68008 board get around the ROHS regulations (they use old components like V9990 video display processors).

I don't know if a V9990 contains hazardous substances, if it does and they sell it as a complete system then they may face problems (if they are caught)

"It is permissible to place on the market spare parts - containing the hazardous substances - for the repair of old equipment (if the latter was put on the market before 1st July 2006). But it is not permissible to repair new equipment (put on the market after 1st July 2006) with spare parts containing hazardous substances."

The more interesting example is the amiga reloaded. Arguing that is a spare part for repairing an old amiga would be a stretch and it's all surface mounted so can't realistically be sold as a kit.

Fortunately the two new C64 reloaded (if they ever arrive) should be fine.

Reimbursement for personal expenses that not incurred by a business activity are hardly the purview of a regulatory agency.
And this is not a business.

They provide a product for a fee, how is that not a business? It may not be a profitable business, but if ROHS cared about that then every single manufacturer would figure out how to not be profitable. "I poisoned 20 million people today, but I shouldn't be held responsible because I was only reimbursed for my personal expenses".

The board doesn't have a ROHS problem anyway.

[psxphill]

There is legal and there is illegal. Fair is a moral concept, not a legal one.
And while I won't stoop to attacking a German's sense of superiority (moral or otherwise), legislating morality doesn't work.

A lot of laws, including US/UK/EU, make it unlawful to be unfair in certain circumstances.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unfair_competition

I think you misunderstood his point.

Making ROHS optional for businesses that aren't real businesses (honest) would mean that every single manufacturer would do whatever it took to become a not real business. It's plain to see what companies like Apple/Starbucks/etc did to make it look like they didn't make a profit in certain countries, so they could avoid paying taxes.

[psxphill]

And so far, we've ascertained that the bare board doesn't violate ROHS rules, so why continue to push this issue?

They are two completely separate points.

We're doing A only because of B.
You don't need to do A because B doesn't apply.
Yes, we're doing A only because of B.
You don't need to do A because B doesn't apply.
Yes....

So this intrigues me as to the real motive/whether they are arguing disingenuously.

Also, say you give me money when I go out to buy a cup of coffee, so that I might get you one.
Does this put me in business as a supplier of coffee?

I don't know the people on a1k.org and they are controlling who can buy the board. So it's not a good analogy.

If you pursuaded starbucks to stock your own special blend of coffee which they would only supply to customers that you authorised and I gave you money and you told them to produce a cup of your special blend of coffee for me, then yes you are in business as a supplier of coffee.

No guys, businesses are licensed entities.

Licensed for what and by whom?

I can get up tomorrow and find someone who is willing to pay me to work tomorrow. That would be my business and I don't need a license. As a self employed person I may be required to fill in a tax return, but if I don't then that doesn't stop me from being a business.

Surely these old chips cause less harm to the earth if they are used as opposed to entering landfill?

I believe ROHS allows for the re-use of old chips for repairing equipment made before 2006. Of course https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus becomes relevant here. I certainly should be allowed to buy NOS chips to repair an a500+ and I should also be allowed to buy a brand new pcb. But getting cases, keyboards and pcbs manufactured and fitting them with NOS chips maybe not.

[psxphill]

And yes, lead in landfills (my country's primary way of disposing of waste) could lead to long term problems.

It's not just lead and the US has a history of poisoning it's population if it meant saving money. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinkley_groundwater_contamination

I'm glad that regulations like ROHS exist.

I can only wonder where all these NOS chips are coming from though, did Commodore have a massive stock of them that was liquidated? They went under more than 20 years ago.

You'd be surprised what turns up in warehouses. The NOS A1200's that turned up a couple of years ago had been sitting in a warehouse for over a decade.