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Author Topic: Tips on moving to Linux?  (Read 69687 times)

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Offline psxphill

Re: Tips on moving to Linux?
« on: March 31, 2014, 01:22:53 PM »
Quote from: Iggy;761284
And...that's just silly.
Kind of like defending an OS that uses a flat database like the Windows Registry.

Registry is just another file system. /etc is much much worse.
 
Quote from: ral-clan;761584
The Windows XP installation is dependent on certain drivers set up to match the motherboard and related hardware it was running on (or so I've read). Migrating a whole hard-disc to a new computer is difficult and a re-install is usually a better choice (besides the whole registration/authentication thing).

The AHCI / IDE setting in the bios has to match, although you can boot in IDE mode and then change it to expect AHCI mode on the next boot (google for change sata mode after windows installation).
 
You can also have problems if it needs to use a different hal, but I believe you can force it to redetect that too on the next boot (google for bcdedit /detecthal )
 
I've not used Linux recently, but back when I did you had to relink the kernel depending on the hardware in the machine. That might have changed and even if it hasn't there will be guides on how to do it. You also have to pray that there are actually Linux drivers for your hardware, people who like Linux are prepared to go through a lot of pain to use it.
 
 
I don't mind reinstalling windows, it usually gives you the opportunity to discard stuff that you can't be bothered to track down and delete but you won't miss if you never bother to install again.
 
I wouldn't stay with XP, I have been running 8 for ages now & it's much nicer. Now that they have fixed android fastboot for flashing my phone in 8.1, I am going to reinstall soon. #notmissingstartmenu
« Last Edit: March 31, 2014, 01:36:50 PM by psxphill »
 

Offline psxphill

Re: Tips on moving to Linux?
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2014, 11:27:13 PM »
Quote from: TeamBlackFox;761688
I have not used Windows so much in the last 6 years that I don't even bother with anything besides 98lite for DOS games, 2000/XP for legacy PC compatibility, and Windows 7 for the rare occasion WINE does not do the job.

And yet you have a strong opinion on Windows 8.
 
I certainly wouldn't go through the pain of running 2000/XP or Wine. Windows 8 is great, compatibility is great. The only annoying thing is the 64 bit versions don't support 16 bit apps, so you need to choose between 16/32 bit apps or 32/64 bit apps. You can always run a 32 bit version in a virtual machine though.
 
 
Quote from: Duce;761693
W8 should have defaulted into a traditional desktop mode from the start when said OS was installed on desktop / non touch hardware versus cramming Metro down ones throat.

I still run Windows 8 on my main machine as I couldn't update to 8.1 until recently and haven't gotten round to doing it yet. I don't feel for one second that Metro is crammed down my throat. I want 8.1 for other reasons than booting to the desktop, I'm quite capable of clicking the desktop button on the very (very) rare occasion that I need to (maybe once in the last month).
 

Offline psxphill

Re: Tips on moving to Linux?
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2014, 11:49:33 AM »
Quote from: cgutjahr;761849
2. installing Windows alongside Linux isn't possible at all - so far Linux beats Windows hands down, as far as you are concerned ;)

It's just a pity for your argument that it was Linux that was causing the problem. It sounds like you'd defend Linux to the end.
 

Offline psxphill

Re: Tips on moving to Linux?
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2014, 03:15:31 PM »
Quote from: Iggy;762159
UH, but that is the DUMB way to do it.
Windows or OSX first, then Linux, because those first two OS' aren't smart enough to co-exist with something else.

 It's not dumb. All you need to do is reinstall grub, if you have a problem doing that then Linux is not for you.
 
http://askubuntu.com/questions/83771/recovering-grub-after-installing-windows-7
 

Offline psxphill

Re: Tips on moving to Linux?
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2014, 10:43:01 AM »
Quote from: AmigaPixel;762287
I am hoping the Vista drivers work or better yet Win 7 SP1 will find all of the hardware and the only thing I will have to install is the nVidia driver.

The Vista to 7 transition was far better than the 2000->XP or XP->Vista transition for driver compatibility, especially if you took the plunge and installed the 64 bit version.
 
Even if windows doesn't find all the drivers, somewhere like http://www.station-drivers.com/ is a good place to start. I mainly start off by googling for the device id from device manager and the name of the OS. If you're looking for a driver now it's very likely that someone has previously been looking for one as well.
 

Offline psxphill

Re: Tips on moving to Linux?
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2014, 09:12:08 AM »
Quote from: cgutjahr;762817
Somebody told you the required keyboard shortcut for Windows a decade ago - and nobody's bothering to explain the Linux equivalent to you (might be because of all the swearing, but that's just a guess) - that's the only difference.

If you know what Task Manager is for in Windows then finding it on your own is trivially easy. It's on the menu that is used for logging out or locking the screen and is also available by right clicking the task bar.
 
If you have to court an existing Linux user to find out how to do the same, then I can see why Windows has a much higher installation rate.
 

Offline psxphill

Re: Tips on moving to Linux?
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2014, 07:24:51 PM »
Quote from: persia;763141
Windows users don't even know there's a command prompt in Windows. And heaven forbid one of these new Windows Server 2012 Administrators ever has to fix a config file. Face it, Windows is for people who don't ever want to see a command line. It's really no different to Android...

This statement is full of fail. I know plenty of Windows users that use a command prompt, jpsoft have even made a business out of it. I wouldn't even say that Mac users don't know there's a command prompt in OSX, because I now some do.
 
Quote from: cgutjahr;763143
If you don't know how to do it in Linux, then why bother to reply?

My point didn't require me to know, in fact quite the opposite.
 
Quote from: cgutjahr;763143
On Ubuntu, you open the main menu then go to System -> System Management -> System Monitor. I don't think that'r rocket science.

What if I'm not using Ubuntu? Is it the same in all the other distros?
 
Quote from: polyp2000;763146
Im not sure where you get that statistic from but market share does not a good operating system make!
 
Apparently it does, at least the following post he was replying to implied that it did. You can't have it both ways.
 
Quote from: cgutjahr;762817
Two thirds of the Internet is running on Linux these days - but hey, what's that compared to your glorious insight in Linux' stability...

Linux is good when a company wants to make a profit out of someone elses hard work, to drive down prices on TV's, phone's, servers etc. It also can break compatibility a lot easier, something that Microsoft can't. Windows gets some really dreadful device drivers and software written for it too, but then you should be able to buy any old printer (or other peripheral) and expect that it should just work with Windows.
 

Offline psxphill

Re: Tips on moving to Linux?
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2014, 10:44:49 PM »
Quote from: gertsy;763388
On the second point, bullsh1t. Microsoft give direct incentives for their OS on OEM kit for sure, but they have no reps with black top hats, capes, and stiffly waxed moustaches going around the world sabotaging other products. ALL the major MB manufactures support Linux and provide drivers for most or at a minimum subset of their MBs.

It's not cost effective for an OEM to ship Linux. It limits their hardware selection for a start.
 

Offline psxphill

Re: Tips on moving to Linux?
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2014, 09:02:53 AM »
Quote from: desiv;763419
Assuming an OEM had to decide to ship Linux on all their motherboards and be compatible with all their products, that might be the case.
 
But that isn't the case..
 
It's all about sales and marketing.
If Dell could sell a consumer laptop with Linux on it, but Linux wasn't compatible with their corporate laptop chipset, AND that consumer laptop with Linux sold really well, Dell wouldn't care.

They have to spend money to check whether Linux will run on each machine, even if it turns out that they can't. Adding another operating system option will cost money in production, ordering etc. All to support an operating system that they then can't charge you money for, as if they charge the same price then people would likely order it with Windows just in case they ever need it and then install Linux themselves.
 
It might make sense on some servers, which I believe they will ship with Linux (or have shipped in the past). But laptops, desktops, all in ones etc have such a small margin that it's not really cost effective.
 
They could force Windows users to subsidise shipping Linux, but they then wouldn't be competitive with OEMs that only ship Windows.
 

Offline psxphill

Re: Tips on moving to Linux?
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2014, 11:00:38 AM »
Quote from: desiv;763462
Depending on the support contract, that might or might not be a big deal. It's also possible they have a large customer who has requested that, so they already have a process.

Support contract with who? They are more likely to promise Linux for a large customer and just take a bath on the extra cost, sales people will promise the earth if they can smell commission. In the server market though Linux is a big deal, so they do tend to support it there.
 
Quote from: desiv;763462
Who said anything about supporting an OS they can't charge money for? Of course they are going to charge money for it..
Free to them doesn't mean free to the consumer.. ;-) Of course support costs need to be built in.

Which will mean that buying a computer with Linux could cost more than one with Windows, which is likely going to upset the majority of Linux users who only use it because it meets their communist ideology. Selling with no operating system at all also has a cost beyond the Windows license itself, like the additional cost of support/returns when people find that the operating system they want to install won't work. It's easier and cheaper all round to just say it's Windows only, take it or leave it.
 
Quote from: desiv;763462
If it costs money, and they don't make money selling it, they won't.

Sure, which is why generally they won't.
 
Quote from: desiv;763462

It costs them money everytime MS releases a new version of the OS. Doesn't mean they won't support it...

They can spread that cost over a whole lot more systems. The component manufacturers also make the same choices, so the cheaper components are likely to only have windows drivers.
 
Quote from: desiv;763462

If/when it appeals to customers, then they will support it, regardless of the "cost" to them. That is just the cost of doing business..

It has to appear to enough customers and they have to be willing to pay more if they happen to be in a minority.
 
 
Quote from: cgutjahr;763455
For more recent examples of that kind of behaviour search the net for "UEFI Secure Boot", which in turn is the second coming of "Trusted Computing" - Google the latter in combination with "Palladium" and "criticism" to learn what the rest of us have to worry about regarding Microsoft even if we never use any MS products.

UEFI secure boot is one of the most demonised good ideas ever. The criticism is basically "UEFI secure boot is evil because Microsoft is evil". I've yet to see a single valid criticism of it.
 
It was designed purely to stop malware from installing itself in the boot process, where it could hide itself from any anti virus/malware software.
 
Quote from: cgutjahr;763455
Stop the lies! The day that Microsoft 'saved' Apple

The funny thing there is that the headline suggests it's a lie and then goes on to list the many ways that Microsoft saved Apple.
 
Microsoft bought $150 million of stock & committed to writing apps for the Mac, it saved Apple. Why they did it is irrelevant.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2014, 11:23:32 AM by psxphill »
 

Offline psxphill

Re: Tips on moving to Linux?
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2014, 09:21:09 PM »
Quote from: desiv;763541

Looking for conversations with rational people who can see the positives and negativies in both OSes..

You'll be lucky, this thread is full of LOL Windows $uck$ & Linux rul3zzzzz!!!!!1
 
 My point was about users, nothing to do with capabilities of the OS. I run Linux on many devices just not on anything that would be classed as a computer.
 
 Linux has some technical positives because they don't care about compatibility, while Microsoft have to try to keep software compiled twenty years ago to run on the latest operating system.
 
 Android is worse, each phone has compatibility issues even when using the same version of Android, it's fork hell. I've been following the development of Cyanogenmod for my obsolete 2011 phone & the way you have to pick and choose from different forks because nothing seems to work properly is insane.