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Author Topic: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community  (Read 77445 times)

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Offline Rodomoc

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Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
« on: December 21, 2011, 05:47:51 PM »
OK, a hardware development and limited manufacture proposal here, made to the entire Amiga community. Let's say the community is largely comprised of legacy 68K, OS4 PPC, MorphOS PPC, Aros (on a variety of possible hardware), 68K emulated UAE, 68K emulated Amithlon. And the FPGA 68K crowd (Minimig cores, upcoming FPGA Replay, and eventually Natami) Hopefully I have not left anyone out....
 
The community is so fragmented that I am not surprised by the variety of posts made so far, although Natami seemed to garnish more than a bit of popularity. So anyway from a hardware platform standpoint I would think that MorphOS should be immediately thrown out. Being that they have a more clearly defined and independent path moving forward. OS4 people might benefit from new hardware more than most provided it were more cost effective than current options. At 500 pieces however and the additional need to tweak the OS to run on it, this does not seem like a good fit. I do not see Aros benefitting from a 500 piece hardware release as standard x86 stuff alread exists-is cheap-and is fast.
 
That leaves maybe the 68K FPGA options but even this is not so simple. Building an AGA version of Minimig? FPGA Replay already has its own hardware so this proposal not useful there. Natami maybe but I have yet to hear of any Natami Team comments about this. Besides, they are still working at things and could always do a pre-order scenerio by themselves.
 
Or how about taking the legacy hardware replacement route? Similar to the A1000 reproduction motherboards that are out there. A board that a legacy 68k guy could dump his custom chipset out of his 25 year old leaky battery motherboard into and bolt right into his real Amiga thus keeping his quasi-original hardware alive? The designer of the A1000 board even has some nice little upgrades that could be integrated without really breaking the real Amiga hardware experience.
 
Or how about just doing some support hardware? Like a PS2 or USB keyboard in the Amiga format? This could benefit all of the community in this small way.
 
So not a real clear situation to me at this time. Speaking selfishly, I would love to have a brand spanking new A3000 motherboard to replace my creaky original. I dump the critical chips from my old board into the new one, maybe pick up some enhanced features like more ram or 040-060 cpu, blah blah, and I would be all set.
 

Offline Rodomoc

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Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2011, 04:32:55 PM »
Alright, again from a community standpoint some camps within it are already independently engaged thus I do not see this offer providing a benefit to those groups. Each of them has its own hardware support scheme and also in the software arena. Let's face it, Amiga-land is most likely permanently fragmented from its original roots / user base. Other than some general software code sharing or porting, these camps will never officially merge back into a single entity. Sorry but that's the way it is...

But from a common factor, the community does share a similar background; 68K hardware manufactured by Commodore and its accompanying operating system. So perhaps a common factor hardware 'something or another' could be accomplished that can go to a multiplatform OS base (AROS-OS4-MorphOS). This is already somewhat accomplished with UAE based software. Everyone incorporates it to some degree or another. This is the approach I suggest only in a hardware format.

So what about a really nice FPGA PCI type card that is stuffable into the various Amiga camp hardware architectures? A fast FPGA that could implement the 68K CPU/FPU's, custom chipset things or other desired features from the Commodore original design. Throw in everything the existing Catweasel does while one is at it. So the idea is - that each individual OS handles its own base functions like mass storage devices-ethernet-usb-whatever, and the expansion card provides an old world hardware experience. I say all of this because in looking at something like Amithlon, it demonstrates that various core hardware functions can be handled by modern hardware without the AmigaOS really breaking. Obviously Amithlon is only a partial solution regarding some features. Therefore take this same approach in an expansion card, and fill in whatever must have Commodore missing blanks you feel the need to have. Stuff it into your next gen AmigaOS hardware of choice and call it a day. The entire community wins and not just one camp. If I am not mistaken, such a similar card was developed already a long time ago. So what is the harm in taking a fresh look at something like this?

Being that FPGA is involved, a large degree of customization should be possible. Let's say Natami releases a killer new CPU core - cool, throw it in. Or the latest and greatest AGA core, etc... None of this work would be wasted or delegated to a single camp. In a small way, some unity could be built with this approach. Maybe there are a few models of this card eventually. A slower PCI based, up to super wicked PCIe-16 model that might have a much more powerul FPGA. While a card like this is built, provide any useful signalling to expansion pins. Any number of card specifications could be invented here.

So each new Amiga camp gets a piece, 68K and original Commodore stuff is retained and at an improved hardware level.

You build something like that, and I'll buy it, it is that simple.
 

Offline Rodomoc

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Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2011, 06:52:33 PM »
Quote from: anglosaxonusa;672613
  • Defend and market the Amiga philosophy of piles of external devices ("Amiga: the duct-taped computer")

  • Keep things beige, angular, and "80s".  Everyone else is doing glossy, black, and sleek.  Go against the grain.
[/LIST]
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I am quite through with my piles of duct taped/deviced legacy machines thus honestly couldn't defend this past the point of those purists wanting to do it that way for whatever reasons... At best I would be interested in more integrated legacy machine upgrade options. Other than this, then new hardware remains my interest whether it be 68k, or other Amiga hardware flavors. There are numerous really cool legacy machine hardware upgrade gizmos. I say combine them into more integrated solutions or as in my last post, just make a generic pci device everyone could use.

Agree with the idea on casework having legacy type appearances or colors. I am in process on using some old Commodore casework to hold modern Amiga type hardware. I'm not either way about CUSA in general but they did manage to make a new case that did look like a C64, which was a bit of an investment from a mold tooling standpoint. I am not interested in their computing products but if they elected to sell that C64 case/keyboard as parts, I'd buy a couple for sure and do my own hardware games on the inside. And as I mentioned in my first post, give me a ps2 or usb keyboard that is Amiga format. Again, cusa seemed to do the same for their C64 product.
 

Offline Rodomoc

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Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2011, 07:06:50 PM »
Quote from: Amiga_Nut;672630

Amithlon will never come back to life, thanks to the copyright vultures gnawing at the carcass of the Amiga (including ineffectual Hyperion in this group).

So You can see how the community is fragmented forever now? Some people will buy my creations, many won't. And to them I say all the best with whatever choices you go for.

(I was never really interested in OS4/MOS seeing as all I am doing is running an emulator and using the same pirated ADFs to use the good stuff as on my Windows PC via WinUAE)

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It is too bad about Amithlon. This could have really turned into something if it stuck around and received development. Remind me to resurrect it from a BSD/Workbench 3.1 standpoint mixed with all of the Umilator stuff - if I ever win the lottery that is...While at it, make an integrated 3.1OS software update package taking that thing the whole 9 yards and equal or past next Gen Amiga OS variants. I would surely do it just to make a point.:roflmao:

Agree on fragmentation. It is get on board one of the offspring (or multiple offsprings) and stop thinking as the community as a single thing. For it clearly is not beyond historical source, API similarities or whatever other similarities still exist.

Emulation is cheapest 68K route obviously and offers a good bang for the buck. For legacy gamers I would assume they are relatively happy with this emulation route. The work Toni Wilson has done is quite impressive. For those wanting more modern software stuff out of 68K that competes with windows/linux/whatever stuff of today, probably not realistic... But still, running a full tilt AmigaOS 3.9 under WinUAE is an interesting experience.

I'm ok with the concept of next gen OS such as MorphOS or Aros. I like the overall software product and attitude of MOS developers . Aros is a long term platform sort of thing, in open source, with increasing levels of hardware portability. Plus they provide a feedback loop to other players so many end up benefiting. So I gotta support them forever.:)
« Last Edit: December 23, 2011, 07:53:31 PM by Rodomoc »
 

Offline Rodomoc

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Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2011, 11:42:53 PM »
I wonder if this entire thread is a marketing survey of sorts. 6 months development timeline to develop what exactly? I would be interested in the true resources at play here. Obviously there is some capability to farm tasks out like 3D scanning, 3D cad design, injection mold building, contracting out a keyboard construction. I'm good with all of that and do this sort of crap for a living. But hardware design of any complexity? At best I can see using something that already exists out there and adapting software to it. I think we need the original poster to say something more here.