Warp3d Voodoo vs. Radeon ClassicOS

[Iggy]

1)  If you want to play the games that support Warp3D, then you don't want to play them in software mode.  If you don't want to play any of the Warp3D games then not useful.
2)  No, there is no Radeon Warp3D driver, this needs to be written or ported from OS4.
3)  A Voodoo3 in Warp3D mode will be 2-4x+ faster than a Radeon in software mode and look better too.

Pity, under OS4 or MorphOS the Radeon would dust a Voodoo3. And both of those OS' support Warp3D funtionality with the Radeon.

Anyone know why there isn't a Radeon driver for legacy applications?
It seems kind of dumb considering it shouldn't be that hard to backport.

In fact, the R200 drivers under both OS4 and MorphOS are so mature that they perform really well.
Many MorphOS users didn't move to higher cards when the R300 drivers were introduced because everything above the R200 (under MorphOS) isn't W3D compatible.
And the performance gain was less than you'd assume.

Still, the Voodoo3's performance isn't that shabby.
It beats the other solutions (except for the previously mentioned Radeon).

[Iggy]

It would be helpful if elbox would make a warp3d driver for the radeon particularly since they support if for 2D video and memory on the mediator.  And as Iggy says R200 solutions on platforms related to amigaOS 3.1 do have warp3d drivers.  

Funny I have a R200 card in a G5 mac with MorphOS on it.

Not that funny, I've suggested that to others before.
Its the one way you can get W3D compatibility with the G5.
And a 9200 with a Mac rom can used the full AGP 8X bandwidth (although a 9000 isn't significantly slower).

The R200 drivers under MorphOS and OS4 are very mature and perform surprisingly well.

Since Hyperion has an R200 driver for OS4, and they want to continue to develop OS3.1, why not push them to support the R200?
After all, OS4 supports the mediator, why shouldn't OS3.1?

If you wait for Elbox to do it....well we all know how long that wait could be (and we're not getting any younger).

[Iggy]

The smallest card that shipped with a G5 was a 64MB Radeon9600Pro which is a RV350.


R200 cards were supposed to go into G4, with the one build for

The cards I've seen running in G5s were reflashed Radeon 9200s.
The Apple 9000 is a 4X AGP card with a power connector for the ADC power supply that is in the wrong place for a G5.

I'm not sure a PC 9000 couldn't be modified for use in a G5, but I've never tried a 4X card in a G5.

[Iggy]

a) widely off-topic

b) there never was "a plan" to make them supported

c) it is a badly kept secret that these indeed worked with 3.10beta(no idea wether that is still in the release) if you installed a supported PCIe Radeon (PPC-BIOS not needed)

d) NVidia is t3h eViL !!!!

First, the 11,2 IS MorphOS compatible and some people have them running the OS, BUT it isn't supported and there is no plan to add this to the public distro (so buy an X5000).

Second, you do not need a Nvidia video card, as there is a Apple Radeon X1900GT for the 11,2 that should work perfectly.
And if you are willing to forego access to openfirm, then the newly supported PC cards (without a Mac rom) will work fine.

Nvidia cards will never be supported under MorphOS (and don't look likely under OS4). If you want to use one, switch to AROS.

[Iggy]

Yes, from what I understand 11,2 PowerMac support was pulled from MorphOS 3.10. It could see distribution eventually, but I personally wouldn't want to see it cannibalize X5000 sales.
AND the X5000 is much more power efficient (G5 PowerMacs make great space heaters, and their fans at full speed are quite loud).

Your experiments with using both the Radeon 9200 and the Voodoo3 sound interesting. The extra memory on the Radeon can be put to good use.
Is it possible to use both cards for display, or does using Voodoo3 preclude the use of the 9200 for display?

And if Warp3D is the only component missing from the 9200 driver, it sounds like we just need a talented coder.
The fact that W3D support exists under OS4 and MorphOS provides two examples of how this can be implemented, so it should be easier than using a Linux driver as an example (of course the lack of source code is problematic, but I can remember disassembling machine code on the 68K, so it shouldn't be impossible to examine the PPC code to get an idea of what its doing).

Addendum - Oh, has anyone thought about using a higher end PCI card like the Radeon HD 5450 in a mediator? Again, there are OS4 and MorphOS drivers for that (albeit without W3D support), and that would be a kick ass combo with the Sonnet.
AND, how is the attempt to backwards engineer the Sonnet going?
It ought to be possible to build faster variants of that card.

[Iggy]

I havent seen anything new on backwards engineering the sonnet.

The sonnet team have progressed onto getting other PPC PMC cards running with PMC->PCI adapters. These are quite a lot faster than the sonnet but require power modifications to get running stably.

https://github.com/Sakura-IT/SonnetAmiga/wiki/Installing-a-Rapture-card

I believe they're working on their own stand-alone card but no details have been made public on that so far.

For out-of-the-box turn-key use the Sonnet G3/G4 is still the easiest solution to get running and provides excellent performance.

Except...they are almost as rare as hen's teeth.
And a re-implementation of the card could run two to three times faster.

[Iggy]

I think if someone approached A-EON offering to do the work it could happen but I can't see them diverting their current resources towards this.

AND Aeon doesn't produce software, it pays others as outside contractors to do it.
Further, the existing OS4 R200 driver (as a model) is quite old.
Hyperion could do the backport, as they have the OS4 source code, and they claim they want to support OS3.1, BUT it adds to the other tasks they are already swamped with.

OR you guys could establish a bounty and pay someone write this for you. Can you think of anyone, with experience writing W3D drivers for OS4? One person comes in mind to me.

[Iggy]

Drivers for later cards under OS4 have to use 3D gpu functions since there aren't any 2D functions.

[Iggy]

My point is that the OS4 Warp3D driver for R100/200 relies on functionality nor available to OS3.x, so a back port becomes a bit more involved.

So it would be best to do it from scratch. Got it.

[Iggy]

Ahem.... I'll just leave this here......

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=karl+site%3Awww.amigaos.net

Wow, it takes a lot of coders to be second best. :hammer:

[Iggy]

Taking part is what matters.

Yeah, I know.
Hope the AmigaOS diehards don't get offended by the jab.

And outside of OS development, the base of developers creating useful programs isn't bad.

[Iggy]

Was, more like. I got married and had kids since then...

OH! So it's your wife's fault that there isn't an updated Radeon driver. Now I get it. :hammer:

[Iggy]

This is why developers should use services like github etc.

Yes, that's a perfectly dreadful lose.
But if its a mechanical drive you might be able to salvage the data.
 My last two loses? SSDs...no warning...done...toast.

[Iggy]

What kind of SSD? I have only experienced that writing no longer work, but never had any trouble reading data from "dead" SSDs. It also helps if the filesystem is aware of the concept "SSD" and behaves accordingly

Well the latest issue is with an OWC drive I bought from AOTL.
Doesn't even bring up the drive parameters when connected.

[Iggy]

Well, I finally solve my problem with the Voodoo 3 and the Sonnet.  It was definitely the Voodoo 3.  I found an old crappy original celeron PC at a yard sale.  The computer didn't even have a AGP slot, but low and behold it had a pci voodoo in it.  But not just any voodoo, but a pci voodoo 4.  Well as you can imagine, I bought the PC, turned it on long enough to test the voodoo 4 and promptly put it in my A4000 where is it happily working with the sonnet

DAMN! I have been looking for one of those forever!
You are one lucky SOB!