It's been a long time

[Iggy]

...For word processing, there are the old classics Wordworth and Final Writer. OS4 has a program called CinnamonWriter and there's something available on MorphOS, the name of which escapes me...

Um...Cinnamon Writer (since Claus supports all 3 NG OS'). And the classic word processors usually work on PPC NG platforms as well.

I think we've got PDF viewers (but I haven't used them), and Google Docs ought to work.

Our web browser does need some work to update it.
But that will get done, in time. Two weeks, maybe? :lol:

Instead of looking around for an A500, I'd wait until Jens releases the new A1200 boards (or consider an fpga machine).

[Iggy]

Yeah, right off the bat, and well within your price range, a cheap Mac G4 or G5 running the demo of MorphOS and UAE on a PC (if you own one) will give you an idea of what you can do easily with legacy and NG.

Should Tabor become available, OS4's entry cost will drop, and right now a dirt cheap PowerMac G5 and a copy of MorphOS licensed is very economical.

[Iggy]

The only ironic thing here is you defending AROS because it's cheap.

"Unfortunately only you see can't how transparent and petty it makes you look"

The OP wants to spend $200 but it ain't gonna happen! Unless he's really lucky!

BTW, even the MorphOS guys are going to NEW...

Well...I am, but I can't say its the best decision for all.
After all, when you dispense with the hype, a G5 PowerMac is faster (it CAN display HD video without dropping frames), has higher memory bandwidth (even with older memory), and is much cheaper.
It just won't run both MorphOS and OS4.

But a PowerMac WILL run both MorphOS AND Ubuntu Mate, so...

However...fishy's $100 aud i5 system? Hey, I spend more than that on my video cards.
I can't imagine what a POS you get for $100 (although, I have bought laptops in that range).

Look, if your priorities don't include spending the bucks for a PPC AmigaOne, I'm cool with that.
But don't pretend your commodity Intel hardware's pricing has any real bearing on the situation.
Its an apples an oranges situation, and I like both.

And SOME people are stupid enough to pay those kind of prices for an A4000 tower.

Hey, to each his own.
How you spend YOUR money is your business.

What's "ironic" is you think I should give a flying fu*k about what you think of what I do with MINE.

[Iggy]

The OP did ask for advice in part three of his post.

My advice, forget old used stuff (even if the g5 is faster...it's old)

BTW, X5000 can run linux and I've been told MorphOS too!

I'm so sick of the bad caps, battery rot and used up old devices.

I  offered the best advise I believe.

BUY NEW! If you want Amiga. At the moment, that's the X5000!

Cheap is not cost effective!

True!
Like George Harrison sang on 33&1/3 "Its all up to what you value, down to where you are..."

I'm waiting to spend slightly MORE on a four core P5040  based X5000 (and THAT won't outperform my G5s).

But it WILL run OS4, MorphOS, and Linux.
AND it WON'T run Windows OR MacOS, which to MY way of thinking is an advantage...;-)

[Iggy]

@iggy
$50 for i5-760 CPU. $50 for a decent h55 MSI motherboard. Hardly a pos. Performs nicely. USB3, PCI express 3.0. Decent little micro atx machine.

Y'all might want to reel in the paranoia too. I was trying to offer the OP advice based on *his* wants. If you'd bothered to read what I wrote rather than jumping to raise your (irrelevant in the context of this thread) flag you'd have seen I even said that an RPI+amibian might be his best option for what he wants "despite AROS being my preference".
And yes SACC-Dude, my facts are correct. You claimed AROS needs an expensive Intel system to run properly, which is complete crap.

I couldn't care less if people want an X5000 or not. There were no "potshots", I simply tried to respond IN THE CONTEXT OF THE THREAD.

No paranoia (you have to be afraid of something to be paranoid) or potshots (a comment needs to be unjustified to call it that).

Just a different point of view.

AND, from my point of view, compared to PPC NG, AROS IS crap.

AND ARM can't even offer me a decent PCIe equipped motherboard.
About $300 for a PCIe X4 slot (usually compact M2) OR about $800 for a board with a full sized slot (AND usually with all that development board quality fruitiness "baked" right in).

I'll stick with my legacy hardware supplemented my NG.

I may be typing this on my i7 laptop (WITH Win10), BUT, I could just as easily do that on my iBook under MorphOS.

And YES, I COULD do that with AROS, IF Win10 or Ubuntu Mate wasn't a better solution.

Also, I wasn't kidding about the video card, I'm looking forward to buying a cheap RX 560.  But that is going to cost more than the i5 system you are quoting.

[Iggy]

Haha,.... come on bloke, talk about transparent.  
Not sure me laughing my ass off was the reaction you was trying to stir in me though

And here's my equally silly response designed to trigger a reaction (well, if I was serious anyway)....

Hey, if you're happy with archaic performance and a 20year old graphics subsystem that's so obsolete it doesn't even have features introduced in the 90's (pixel shaders), a limit of 2gig ram (my last win98 machine had the same amount) and a CPU arch that hasn't really advanced in 15 years then I'm happy for you.

Personally I'd rather use the more advanced in every way Win9x.

Sure, and I'd personally LOVE to rely on an Intel based system with a built-in gpu that totally sucks gully water, IF I didn't know I could do better by adding a graphics card built with a gpu from their main competitor.

Laugh at whatever you want, I haven't gotten over the laughing fit I had when Intel was building Pentium 4 cpus.

And I use X64 hardware at work, why would I want to focus on using similar hardware in my hobbyist pursuits then DISABLING large parts of the functionality with an OS based on 20 year old software?

You go right ahead laughing, we're laughing too. But, not WITH you. :hammer:

news to me. i have not spend much money on it since years, the only costly (and completely failed) experiment was to buy a system along with a ppc card to check if it delivers something significantly more, which it did not.

today, when fpga accelerators and replacement systems become popular for reasonable money, the situation is better than ever, i guess.

Personally, I'd rather hear THAT argument than fishy's.
I can get behind the idea of replacing my legacy hardware with a well designed fpga system.

...at least morphos people usually dont pretend they are "the (only) true amiga".

Actually, we try to remember that the idea was to go BEYOND Amiga, even IF "the real" Amiga crowd decided that they wanted an exact PPC port of AmigaOS 3.X.

So it didn't work out, MorphOS becoming the next AmigaOS, does it matter?
We've become irrelevant anyway, except to us hobbyists.

[Iggy]

AROS is crap?  Please enlighten me as to how so.

How long was that in beta again?

erm closer to $192 for an nvidia arm dev board which does include a mini pcie slot.

Still too high, I can get a full sized X64 system with a full sized PCIe slot for less, and people are giving away PPC Macs.

That's fine stop bashing my personal choice since I can point out many
places where MY CRAP choice demolishes your choice.

Until you try to run 68K software, which because you OS is wrong endian means you have to emulate everything.
And btw, when we move to X64, you are going to look even worse, because our developers are better than yours. ;-)
(you should take that lightly)

Ubuntu mate is also a better choice than either AOS4 or MorphOS so what's your point?

For an OS with a monolithic kernel its not bad, certainly a better use of an X64 OR PPC cpu than our operating systems. But what's YOUR point, as it isn't Amigan.

As someone who has 6 RX 480's for mining.  I would say your price estimate for the 560 is high.  The RX 550 and the RX 460 are already a sub $100 cards(The RX 560 should be around the same price as the 460).

Personally, I anticipate the RX 560 to be right at the $99 mark, as its certainly better than an RX 550 or 460.
And if I wanted an RX 480, they start at about $180 for the 4GB versions (often with a rebate).
But I don't game or doing anything like bitcoin mining (which just sounds like a waste of hardware and electricity for the meager returns), so an RX 560 will be fine.

In the meanwhile, I promise not to be so harsh on AROS, as it is my second favorite NG OS (and I have friends in the AROS development community like Staf Verhagen).
I just get tired of fishy's bullshirt.

Its a freakin' hobby, spend your money on whatever you want.
Just don't give me a hard time for my choices.

After all, I'm not one of those lunatics that thinks Amiga is going to make some kind of miraculous re-emergence. :rofl:
That train left the station near the turn of the century.

i woulnt want to replace my amigas with whatever. but to each heir own. its nice to actually have the options, without being outright forced into anything.

Eh, I kept a CD32 for gaming, and an A2000 for productivity apps.
I wouldn't mind an A1200 or A4000,  but they are getting too expensive.
AND all the legacy hardware IS aging.

Unless I want to buy one of the German boards or wait for Jens to build new A1200s, fpga is the only way to get NEW legacy hardware (and it runs BETTER).

[Iggy]

@Terminills

We seem to be on the same page here.
Its a freakin' hobby.

If you get a bug under your skin and want to blow some money, go for it.

But don't proselytize.
'Cause if it comes right down to it, when I need somethin' practical, I still need to use Linux, Android, Windows, or MacOS.

[Iggy]

funny thing, im pretty sure, that as soon as morphos or os4 was ported to x86, you would call that a necessary and advanced feature.

good thing is that aros is endian agnostic. you certainly know on an amiga it runs amiga software without any emulation whatsoever. have fun with your further nitpicking.

Ah, we're movin' that way, whether I like it or not.
I kinda liked PPCs.
But they ARE dying, and Power 8/9 doesn't appear to be migrating down to the desktop.

SO...whatcha gonna do, eh?

Frankly, I'm pretty cpu agnostic anymore.
After all, I lost MY bid in the cpu wars in the '90s.

[Iggy]

Uh...hmm...sorry?

We DO get a little over wrought here.
I think we might have given you the impression we don't get along.
We do. Its just that we've spread out in several directions since the '90s.

You start out using something that is relatively unique and seems to point the way to the future, and some second rate hack management types f' it ALL up.

Now everything kinda looks like an Amiga, BUT almost no one even remembers that particular platform.
And worse yet, they want to drop all the credit for multimedia PCs in Steve Jobs and Bill Gates lap.

Its...frustrating.

BUT, this is all just a hobby now.

Emulation would be the ideal way for you to get back into it (although emulation of OS4 is kind of limited and a bit painful).

Cloanto gave me copies of their Amiga and C64 emulation packages years ago, and they were great then.
They've only gotten better.
To the point where the actual hardware is kind of unnecessary (sorry purists).

And you can install UAE yourself on a multitude of devices.

So, I think you have a good plan to start with.

[Iggy]

If a user isn't going to try AROS because it's "Always in BETA" or a research OS then there's a good chance they would never try it to begin with.   As for some people using the BETA term to try to discredit the achievements of the developers.   I guess that comes down to how petty that person is in the first place.

In the end who cares.

I can sum up this thread like this.

AmigaONE is the only NEW Amiga.  (MorphOS and AROS are fakes and should be disposed of)

MorphOS developers can walk on water!!!!

Well AROS is the cheapest!

AmigaOS4 is the pure descendant of the code! :angel:

Classic hardware is all dying!

FPGA isn't real!

Emulation is evil.

Just like every other thread in the last 17 years.

I quite like that summation (even if our developers CAN walk on water, they don't JUST because they don't want to show off :lol:).

Yeah, it gets repetitive, a little.

You forgot "development is deathly slow", "no one but Amigans would be interested", "there are less of us every year", and "you ought to go out and buy a PC or Mac" (as IF most of us don't own one already). :hammer:

Edit - Oh yeah, and "my epenis is bigger than your epenis, and you're a twit for doing it the way you do"

[Iggy]

16bit?

Well, technically 31 bit if you want to use the memory addressing limitation of the Amiga, 32 bit for some instructions, but yes, for the most part the 68K is a 16 bit device.

[Iggy]

@iggy

just a general thought... most of the bickering "we are the best", "we have the best developers" and so on was from MorphOS users, not the devs who not participated there (that is also true for 3rd party MorphOS devs). Those devs can say thank you to those users because that behavior alienated other camps leading to less people using MorphOS and buying licenses. So if you want to promote your favorite OS then it is ok but do not talk down competition, expecially now that there is close to zero 3rd party development, OS core dev team has obviously lost members and OS development stalls for a long time and the famous ISA change is only talk at the moment. And I can dig out the numbers of the Javascript engine test again comparing AROS X86 and real world platforms comparing to MorphOS or AmigaOS. I think you can remember it...

Personally, I feel like the most hostility comes from the OS4 crowd (the "real Amiga" people).
They accuse all the rest of us of stealing, when that is pretty much what AInc and Hyperion have done.
As to developers, you're all using Odyssey, and that was created from webkit by a core MorphOS developer.
We might feel like sharing more IF that worked both ways, but the only real cross NG development that seems to occur is between AROS and MorphOS (unless you count developments in legacy or the very occasional total cross platform program like Cinnamon Writer).

Everyone is free to consider porting Ambient.
MUI 4/5 had to be paid for, and development was carried well past what Stuntz had created, which is why they didn't feel like just handing the work over to a commercial competitor.
And then, once the AOS crowd started to Morph  an earlier version into something they called MUI4 (primarily to facilitate a port of Odyssey), and then went on to create an MUI5 with incompatibility issues with our existing MUI (and no doubt Zune)...

Do you REALLY expect us to be all smiles?

Look, Ben Hermans is an ASS, and he's made so threatening and unjustified legal claims about our OS, when our OS predates the creation and "acquisition" of the rights to OS4.

So YEAH, there's some hostility there.
AND, it might not be there IF Hermans didn't own those rights...
Frankly, I think there is some level of respect for the Friedens (who own part of OS4), and I know there is more than a little of that for Han de Ruiter (who OS4 users owe quite a bit of thanks too).

BUT, please, don't go pointing your fingers at us.
Because we DON'T spend that much time thinking about or attacking YOU.
We DO respond when you make your quaint comments though. :bitch:

[Iggy]

You actually missed that when Stanislaw Szymczyk made the original AROS version of OWB he and fab cooperated.

Good points all.

And the "crap" comment about AROS may be a bit much (although the video drivers leave a LOT to be desired).
And no, I don't lump you guys in with the "real Amiga" crowd, but I do think the OS4 crowd IS responsible for a large part of the friction.

AmigaOS ought to simply be public domain as AInc never really acquired the rights to it or any other products it tried to sell outside of a trademark.
And outside of Cloanto, no one has a claim to it that predates the fiasco known as Amiga Incorporated.

In any case, its not my intention to increase our divisions.
I have legacy hardware, MorphOS hardware, AND an AROS system.
I do NOT have an OS4 system (although I suppose an emulated environment might be worth exploring).
I have committed to buying a P5040 based X5000 once it is introduced (even though a PowerMac G5 Quad 2.5 should outperform that), so eventually I will have real OS4 hardware (which I will then run MorphOS and Linux on primarily). SO...I'll have that covered.

And then there are the fpga systems (I already have an Altera DE1 and will be buying other hardware).

And, I don't hoard. I participate where I can, and try follow developments in ALL communities (I'm currently following Han de Ruiter's great online OpenGL tutorials).

As I've said before, I have a few contacts in the legacy and AROS communities. I've tried that with the OS4 community, but outside of Trevor and Hans, I usually get comments like "I'm only interested in 'real' AmigaOS" and I wonder if they mean OS3.1?

As I've said in past posts, I've owned Cloanto's packages for some time now.
Its gratifying seeing them carry on. Hyperion? Not so much.