Why I didn't buy a Pi

[Iggy]

I have Cortex M3 and M4 devices, but I've never bought a Pi.
I think tonight it occurred to me why.
Its too expensive.
Crazy?
Not really.
I'm typing this on a Sun Ultra 20 workstation I purchased recently for $19.95.
Its processor runs about three times faster than the Pi (and if I want, I can run Solaris).
I have also arranged to buy a 650MHz Sun Blade 150 system for $8.99.
Its only slightly slower than the Pi and gives me a chance to check out a new ISA.

So, what good buys have you guys made lately?

Jim

[Iggy]

ARM with SATA still is not that common.
And the few boards I  have seen only control two devices.
If we had ARM systems with an expansion bus, then adding additional controllers would be easy.

As to the issue of power draw, one Sun system I have has an Athlon mobile processor in it and is relatively low draw.

And I am not anti-ARM.
I am typing this on a Samsung Galaxy Tab 2 tablet.

I also have some PPC processors I am working with that are low power, but the economic argument goes right out the window with those.

[Iggy]

@ bloodline
It was, and still is, the 68K processor.
Although the graphics definately get a nod.
My company's products could match the colors and resolution (and were 68K based -with a better OS  I might add), but the Amiga had a much larger software base as well.

That is probably vital to the sucess of any device, software.

Oh, and on cheap ARM systems, I won a Chinese  built Rocketchip based 4 core 1.8 GHz A9 set top box for $51 a couple of weeks ago.

So what does the UK built Pi bring to the table that my Chinese device can't wipe off it?

And I wouldn't brag to much about the Sinclair, it had all the reliability of a British automobile or motorcycle (which might explain why the British don't make any of these products anymore).

[Iggy]

bloodline...

I apologize for the entire tone of that post you responded to.
Its far to arrogant.

As  to my past endeavors, a few may have seen them. Delmar Company gets  brief mention at the end of the Wikipedia listing on the Tandy Color  Computer.
And the systems were  based on Peripheral Technologies'  PT68K4 and PT68K5 boards (which may be a little better known), the former was part of a long series by Peter  Stark on construction and then use under Star DOS.
Our systems were  either set up for four or more terminals or as a console system with a  keyboard and mouse (via the addition of an ET4000 based video card) and ran on Microware OS-9. We also had a X-Windows based windowing system (at  a time when Win 3.1 was new).

The Amiga had some neat hardware, but we could support four to five users on our base systems which started at under $1000.

But, as to hobbyist computing, you never have to justify it.
One system I'm building right now uses a 33 MHz Z80 offshoot the Z8S180.
Why, eh, I wanted one.
The Rocketchip box?
I just lucked out on a low bid (that's been happening a lot lately) and those chip have somewhat dodgy wifi.

And why in the world am I so fascinated with RISC?
I don't completely agree that PPC have died out, withered back quite a bit, but they are still being developed.
ARM is just fascinating.
And I really want to try Sparc.

And while I still have and use them, X64 boxes continue to underwhelm me.

As to the Pi, I like the expansion options on some versions.
I have a fondness for small mcu boards with similar expansion capabilities.
Why else would I have both a Cortex M3 and an M4 based board?

I think one of the MorphOS developers recently refereed to all this as "recreational computing".

Good term.

Oh and as unreliable as my old GT-6 was, I'd take it in a heartbeat over a Ford Pinto (hey, both hatchbacks).

Edit - OK...I just used wubi to install Precise Pangolin.
We are giving Ubuntu another shot!

[Iggy]

I am in the process of buying a $12000 motorbike. Hopefully i can pick it up next week :razz:

But the British made the Vincent Black Shadow - the best motorbike of all time!

Um, not to burst your bubble Kesa, but....

1st - I actually sold a $15,000 motorcycle this Spring

2nd - The Vincent would get its fanny dusted by the bike I sold, a 1990 Honda RC30.


edit - Precise Pangolin is not bad.

And it fully supports all the geda tools I need for board layouts.

[Iggy]

Comparing the price of new and second hand hardware is like comparing apples and oranges

How would have cost you these machines when new?

Oh so true.
The Ultra 20 I'm typing on was a few thousand.
My price?
$19.95 (with a hefty shipping cost - only G5 Apples weigh more than Sun hardware).

Then again, will there be a used market for the Pi (or any ARM device)?

I've always been a hacker, originally by necessity, so building from scratch or modifying used equipment is nothing new to me.

When I was in High School, if you wanted a computer, you built it.

So even now, when the hardware is pretty much ready to go, I mod stuff, its entertaining for me.

My first MorphOS computer? A Quicksilver Power mac the owner thought was dead, $19.95.
I re-seated the cpu card and it was fine.
My latest?
A G5 PCI-E 2.3 model that isn't supported yet (but will be), About $100 and all I need to do is add an ATI video card (I just won that on eBay for 99 cents - no I'm not kidding). this should easily best an X1000.

But in a testament to my truly split personality, I probably will buy one of Trevor's next machines.
Its a system that was somewhat outlined to me by Paul Gentle several years ago (before I knew for sure he had designed the Nemo board).
Its something Andreas Wolfe and I have been waiting for for a long time.

It WILL be cool.

[Iggy]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FCLjLccU2To

I disliked the pi from the beginning but it is the ideal dev target. If it works there it works everywhere else better ; )

Good point.
Xdelusion does MorphOS program development with an Efika with much the same logic.
The problem is its not 100% true.
The Pi has a really nice, and quite powerful GPU and video decoding section..
In some ways that part is better than many other Socs with more powerful cpus.

If only the Pi was just slightly more powerful.
Even Chinese A7 cores dust an ARM11.
And personally, with the way pricing is going, I'm not going to consider anything less than an A9 dual core.

And next year when ARM goes 64 bit, expect to see these older designs scramble over each other for sales.

Again, I won't complain, its a testament to the superiority of the RISC cpu.
Even Acorn couldn't kill ARM.
Apple may have dealt the PPC a blow, but it was funny to see what everyone used in the last generation of game consoles.
And with Sparc being opened to public development...

Well, X64 will survive, but its still not going to totally dominate, which is fine with me.

The last thing I want to see is the distant descendant of a calculator cpu gaining total control of the computer market.

[Iggy]

Of course your RC30 would wipe the pants off the Vincent the same way my gaming laptop would roll over my A500. I'm disapointed in you Iggy for making that kind of comparison - you should know better  

I'm buying a 600cc Yamaha RZ6n.

Don't kill yourself.
The RC30 was actually very easy to ride.
2 strokes, they scare me (although I am considering an RZ350 or an old Road Dog).
There was a guy in New Jersey a few years ago that was selling a 500cc Gamma.
Lovely hardware, but I am not talented enough to ride something like that.

And I sold the RC because I wanted to see it back on the road.
It has to be the neatest bike I have ever been on.

[Iggy]

Ritter Sport chocolate for 0.59 EUR/100g (IMHO the best normally priced chocolate in Germany, in the higher price domain there are of course other choices like Hachez or Caillers to stay with normal consumer brands). Heck, what is a running computer worth if there's no chocolate within reach?
Have no clue why the dentist sends me season greeting-cards each year though...

So 0.59 Euros for about a 1/4 lb. of decent quality chocolate.
Yes, that's a good buy (he types while hunched over a cup of chocolate ice cream he suddenly got a mysterious urge to consume).

[Iggy]

Good luck playing 1080p movies using hardware decoding in your shi-tty SPARC stuff, Iggy
Or emulating a SEGA CD system at a rock-solid 60FPS with shaders and zero input lag (running X-less, using native Dispmanx+EGL/GLES, and linuxraw as input method, thanks to a properly compiled RetroArch + core).

I prefer my Pis any day of the week over your noisy and power-hungry junk workstation. And my caps won't give the ghost anytime soon, either

It's not about raw CPU power. A self-called Amiga user should know it well.

I do believe I've been flamed!

Don't sweat it. I've got this.

If the Pi didn't have a really strong GPU and decoding section, that pathetic ARM 11 processor wouldn't be able to handle that either.
And I can do the video without any hardware assist on my G5 under MorphOS thank you.

As to Sparc, you apparently are not that all experienced with this ISA.
Its not designed for that kind of use.
Its designed for threading.
The two older processors that are now open source the UltraSparc T1 and T2 are eight core 64 bit processors that support four threads per core.
Work that out, its 32 concurrent threads.
These are several years old and AMD and Intel still can not match that.
And the T2+?
Supports multiple processors (as does the T3, T4, T5, each successively faster, you get where I'm going with this?).

As far as video decoding goes, I'm pretty sure a Sparc could handle that much better than any ARM processor (especially a single core ARM11) AND still handle 31 other concurrent tasks.

Now, the cheapest Sparc I have on hand cost me $8.99 and runs only about 100 MHz slower than your Pi.
And, its got a real expansion bus, and external video card, a DVD drive, you know real computer accessories.

I've thought about a T2 system, but really those aren't suited to single user functions (I'd never be able to really load it down). AND, the video card support on servers frankly sucks.

Also, my main system is X64 Opteron based.

If I really wanted a Linux monster, I'd buy a relatively cheap eight core AMD processor a lot of memory and some fast drives.

BTW - What is the maximum a Pi can access a drive at?
Can it do RAID?
I have a cheap SCSI Ultra320 RAID array in the Sun I'm typing on now.

Care to compare benchmarks on drive throughput with your Pi?
Why not? This system was about $20 before I added memory (and the drive array and controller I had lying around).
I can buy the extra electricity with the cash left over.
And I'm never going to misplace these bulky monsters.

Honestly, don't tax me comparing toys with business machines.
Its silly.

Jim

[Iggy]

Oh, and the $8.99 system?

I added a PCI expansion card to it for about $39.95 that  has 1GB of its own memory and an Athlon Mobile processor running at  1400MHz to run Windows. Is your Pi capable of running Windows under its  main OS?

[Iggy]

It's not about raw CPU power. A self-called Amiga user should know it well.

Um, about this last part...
When it was new, the Amiga's 68K processor was a powerhouse compared to other systems.
In fact, until Intel released the 386, Intel cpus could not run some of the more complex code a 68K was capable of.

So yes, it is about the CPU.
And the Amiga had one of the best.

How do you think the Atari ST managed without all the custom chips?
The cpu dude...duh!

[Iggy]

of coarse an Ultra 20 can run XBMC, its only a PC in a Sun frock!

Alright!
Somebody with some knowledge. Yes, its a Sun case that is almost identical to its Sparc driven brethren with an off the shelf Tyan server motherboard inside.
Never shipped with Windows, mine is running XP and Ubuntu (because Solaris does not have good browser support - I want Firefox or Chrome).
If you update to a Tyan bios, you even get overclocking options the Sun bios doesn't have (and Opterons overclock really well).

Except for an an above par build quality (right down to having every cable and lead routed and strapped in place) its pure PC.

The Sparc hardware I have is older and pre-dates the really good stuff (which in my opinion starts with the UltraSparc T1).

[Iggy]

So when you wrote:
"But the British made the Vincent Black Shadow - the best motorbike of all time! "

You really meant:
"But the British made the Vincent Black Shadow - the best motorbike of it's time! "

Father!
Yes, and an RC30 is very easy to ride hard, and spanks its 1990 competition.
But today's rides would out distance it when pushed.

[Iggy]

"Amiga is very easy to ride hard, and spanks its 1990 competition.
But today's computers would out distance it when pushed."

Very clever.
And true.

And no one should assume that I am anti-ARM.

I am really looking forward to the quad core A9 device I ordered.

Its under powered ARM devices I am not in favor of.

I have to check out the Soc Grandma mentioned (and yeah, the new Opterons will be very cool).