Ease off bashing AmigaONE X1000?

[Iggy]

Your comparison is flawed as the difference is that a few weeks ago I bought a cute 12" iBook G4/1.33Ghz with shipping included for 80€, that's pocket money I can use to "play" with my favourite OS and no wife/gf will complain about that. Do you think spending 80€ is the same as spending 1000, 2000 or 3000€.

I've got you beat on that one.
My 1.42 GHz iBook only set me back $70.
And it works quite well.
Its just painful that the OS key is in the highest tier (meaning I almost have to spend twice as much for the license).

Trevor efforts are important but keep in mind a RadeonHD driver is  almost useless without 3D&Video acceleration (read: there's no much  noticeable difference in 2D with let's say a R9800).

Trevor's little vanity project is pretty impressive.
He took the ACK Systems/Ainc. specs and ran with them finding a partner that could actually obtain the CPUs and build the systems.
I was exchanging e-mail with Paul Gentle (@ Varisys) for months before it was commonly known who A-eon's partner was.
Trevor picked the perfect guys to lead this.

All in all. I don't think it's bashing, it's frustration from the Amiga  community seeing that OS4.x Team is heading their favourite OS to  disaster.

I try not to bash OS4.
And I still get comments like "we're only developing for 'real' AmigaOS".
What everyone seems to forget is that all the MorphOS developers are former AmigaOS developers.
Some of the best, as a matter of fact.

This fiction that pride in your creation has led to a "red vs. blue war" is ridiculous.

All it done is chase the knowledgeable MorphOS supporters off this site.

Anyone notice that Piru doesn't post here anymore?

[Iggy]

True for CPU, but I don`t see Mac G5 or MacPro PPC with such a CPU and bus. So I don`t see how you could get it and what would you do with it in MOS that doesn`t support PCI-E cards at all.

Yet...
And a SAM460 port was announced awhile ago.
Still, the most powerful PCI-e card for the G5 is only an X1900GT.
So, maybe we should be supporting the further development of supported hardware.

Right now, the G5 port only supports 1 GB of memory, and there seem to be some bugs in the Radeon 9800 driver.

[Iggy]

That would explain a lot ...

It actually does. Paul was never in favor of the PA6T.
He recommended Freescale's Qorlq line to me.
And those products have seen steady development since.

+1

While we are on the subject, can someone remind me who wrote OS4 and what they did for the Amiga scene before that?

Then we can list the MorphOS developers and what they did previously for the Amiga scene.

It should make for interesting reading no?

Maybe we ought to compile that list.

My 1st vote for one persistent man would be Frank Mariak, the co-developer of the CyberGraph API (and still working on MorphOS video drivers).

[Iggy]

Looks nice. But seems it never went even to development board
http://www.power2people.org/projects/profile/43

If it was presented to OS4 as viable platform, could saved the day.
But its still vapor.

If you could ensure both MOS team and OS4 team agreement to do OS ports and pushed the bounty more to both camps, it could succeed, hence would be no X1000. But now there is no this board, and there is X1000.

That is a dead issue and there are better processors than the 8610.

Efika does cost 99$ but add 90 euros for MorphOS on top of it and you get less efficient system unexpandable at all for almost the same amounth.

License cost for the Efika is 49 EUR.

[Iggy]

I was asking for names of coders. Let me start it off with a few, Ralph Schmidt, Frank Mariak, Harry Sintonen, Stefan Stuntz.

And Fabien Coeurjoly, Mark Olsen, and André Siegel (and a lot of other people).

VS a couple of angry German's.

Not much of a challenge.

[Iggy]

Nobody doubts that some of the MorphOS developer belong to the best developers on the platform. And someone likes to mention "MorphOS is Amiga done right" what is propably not wrong :-)

The problem I have with the MorphOS developers (at least to a certain degree) is their "closed" attitude. They made some of the best technologies and software packages but failed to see the chance to create standards. Examples are MUI, CybergraphX, OWB. All closed source. What I have read is that key components of OWB are now closed source too (in external components) so even if someone would port it important features would not be there. If I understood it right is HTML5 support in a closed source component. That makes new versions of OWB useless on other platforms. They think it gives them a advantage but I think it is wrong and shortsighted to act this way.

I will cede that part of the argument to you.
Although, since MUI4 comes from an  outside developer, nothing stops OS4 from adopting a version of it.
Sharing the CybergraphX libraries also would have been helpful.

But you must remember no other Amiga related OS except AROS is open.
If the Frieden's had asked for help earlier, then this huge delay in releases might have been reduced.

Also, MorphOS is a commercial product. You wouldn't want your source code copied. That was a unjustified charge Dave Haynie made about Ralph Schmidt's work years ago. That and Ben's comments haven't fostered any great sense of community.

[Iggy]

as you certainly know my main interest is AROS and it is open. I do not know if there is any support regarding Zune but I am not involved there so I cannot say.

I know that there were a lot of bashings and negativ emotions between expecially devlopers of AmigaOS and MorphOS. But whatever the reasons are and who has caused it and is to blame the result is that all 3 platforms are similar but in details very different so that most developers are only supporting one platform in the end. Examples are differences in GUI (MUI4, Zune, MUI3.9/Reaction), RTG (Cybergraphics3, Cybergraphics5, P96). The list is endless and if you dig a little and compare even similar things are solved different and of course incompatible. At the end it forces developers to decide for one platform.

True, although Zune is pretty close.
Reaction seems a bit cruder, but like said I'm sure Stefan Stuntz wouldn't mind being paid for another MUI4 port.
We all use a similar USB stack.
All three OS' are 3.1 API compatible.
There isn't that much difference.

[Iggy]

Stefan Stuntz still lives? I tried to register MUI last year, the payment worked but I did not get any answer. I also sent a email and got no answer too. Hardly creating trust at me...

A basic question. MUI4 is property of Stuntz and licensed to MorphOS-Team and still in development by him?

I know of developers who maintain different sourcecodes what is not very efficient. And the problem are not the "big" differences but the small ones (f.e. CybergraphX related). I experienced that a couple of times when testing 68k applications and games on AROS 68k. It can be non-implemented AROS routines or different behavior/parameters. Often small differences can causes crashes (or at least non-working software) and are difficult to find if you do not know the different OSs. New developers from outside (who we will hopefully win in future) will not be willing to invest lots of time testing their software on different platforms and decide for one platform (they see the most potential in). Alternativ there are multi-platforms tools too who hide the differences but these tools are mostly not suited for every task. So by forcing developers to decide for MorphOS or against it could strike back on them depending on the situation.

I believe that the MorphOS developers stopped paying him and that he is no longer actively working for them.
But I have heard some rumblings in the OS4 community about licensing a version.

[Iggy]

I don't think Stefan is going to open source MUI.
Although, if we are all really serious, a new MUI with cross platform support would be nice.

Maybe we should buy him an X2000 when they come out.
Actually, come to think of it a dual core PowerMac might serve as well.

[Iggy]

The sad part is that a functional version of MorphOS was available years before.

So we really didn't need OS4.
We had a PPC OS and an X86 OS.
All this duplication of effort is not the fault of them teams that worked on those.

[Iggy]

OK, so Steven isn't always the most reliable source.

[Iggy]

no it was not the bashing that drive me away. it actually was the high price, never finished drivers and os4 not out of the beta. that was what drive me away from my amiga hobby. you can squeeze people so much, but at some point its gonna snap peoples wallets and they will leave. that is what happen and not bashing and i was a great member. now i just do a little of aros/winuae and not much here.

Agreed, milking it for every penny was foolish.
It defeated the OS' long term chance for survival.

[Iggy]

i think there always be problems in attitude and confrontations. therefore where the people claim prominent positions it will always be handicap. again i see here advantage in aros, where i feel it is not so important and even if there are leading personalities the whole effort is rather anonymous and easier to identify with without a need to subject oneself.

Sounds like a great way to lose.

And I have no problem with Bill Buck or Ralph Schmidt.
Ralph is a genius.
They had a plan in place, and Bill tried to pull the rug out from under them.
Funny, since he did not profit from it and later had it done to him.

[Iggy]

I have no doubt that AROS (Well, a derivative of it) will win in the end.

it has promise, Nik.
But consider how many Linux distros have withered up and gone away.

[Iggy]

I misread the title as "Ease of bashing AmigaONE X1000"

Actually its more like "bashing Bill and Ben". I still like Trevor.