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Offline Iggy

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Re: Power 7 CPU - 8 cores
« on: September 02, 2012, 01:46:16 AM »
All of you ought to check out the specs for the WiiU's CPU.
 
http://www.vgleaks.com/world-premiere-wii-u-specs/
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-08-30-how-powerful-is-the-wii-u-really
 
I think you'll be surprised.
 
This technology IS getting down to consumer products. The WiiU's processor is supposed to be slower the the XBOX360's or the PS3's, but its out of order (where as they are less powerful in order processors).
 
If this was available in a PC it would be pretty formidable.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2012, 01:49:16 AM by Iggy »
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Offline Iggy

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Re: Power 7 CPU - 8 cores
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2012, 06:19:43 PM »
Quote from: Vanilla;706256
However it is done both x86 and PPC face the same limitations: They are old CPU designs with modern ideas retro fitted onto them, even PC I think. x86[64] is just a hacked up 16-bit CPU from the 80's and PPC has processor limitations of the 90's..
 
If computers really want to make use of multicore they will need to proper multi core CPUs. x86 and even PPC is useless at this point. Expecially x86 which has as many CPU opcode extensions as it does more cores in every redesign. Computers need a CPU that can run code on multicore where the code can run so that it's speed is multiplied.

Which is why we need ARM! HeHe :python:
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Offline Iggy

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Re: Power 7 CPU - 8 cores
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2012, 06:54:37 PM »
Quote from: commodorejohn;706276
(My sarcasm detector isn't working very well - that was tongue-in-cheek, right?)

Yeah, we're getting a lot of ARM promotion here lately and its not like the CPU is anything new.
 
Quote from: slaapliedje;706280
We have a Power7 IBM 720 where I work (along with a bunch of older Power6 and Power5 servers). I tend to think that it should be a pretty hefty piece of computing hardware, but it's slow! I personally think it's because the company I work for are retards and aren't using it correctly anyhow.
 
 
I know the feeling. I've dealt with a lot of people who couldn't figure out how to properly use Radisys OS-9 based systems.
 
Your employers probably aren't implement optimal coding solutions.
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Offline Iggy

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Re: Power 7 CPU - 8 cores
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2012, 07:08:29 PM »
Yeah, its strange.
We know what the Xbox720's GPU will be based on, but no one's certain about the CPU.
We have a really good idea of what the WiiU will be like.
And my guess is that the PS4 will follow a much more evolutionary path then previous Sony consoles (remaining Cell based).
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Offline Iggy

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Re: Power 7 CPU - 8 cores
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2012, 07:18:44 PM »
Quote from: NorthWay;706289
IBM knows how to move air...

Now my sarcasm detector is failing.
THAT definately was sacasm, wasn't it?
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Offline Iggy

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Re: Power 7 CPU - 8 cores
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2012, 07:41:10 PM »
Quote from: AJCopland;706294
Dunno, seen specs with PPC + Ati and seen Intel + nVidia so not sure what's really in the Xbox720.
However, fairly certain that the PS4 won't have Cell :) I head they were going with an AMD CPU!
 
As I said, I think we can safely say that none of us have a clue until they're released, there's just too many conflicting rumours.

We won't know about Sony's product till they're ready to tell us, but since IBM has some connection with AMD/ATI that wouldn't be completely surprising.
Imagine, an AMD based device that's not built by Gloal Foundries.
 
As to Microsoft, I'm almost certain about the ATI GPU.
And, again, as Microsoft also uses IBMs foundries who knows what CPU will pop up.
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Offline Iggy

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Re: Power 7 CPU - 8 cores
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2012, 07:53:57 PM »
"DEC MicroPDP-11/23+ (15MHz, 32MB HD, 256KB RAM)"
 
Love that one, John.
I was interested in that CPU family before there were pre-built computers.
 
16bit before the 8bit IBM PC was introduced.
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Offline Iggy

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Re: Power 7 CPU - 8 cores
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2012, 12:30:54 AM »
Quote from: matthey;706309
The 68k is old and it was heavily influenced by the PDP-11/VAX-11 which would be ancient and quite an innovative design back then. I think it would be difficult to make fast on modern hardware but I think the 68k could be modernized and run well enough. A modern 68k would be the easiest to use and have the best code density of any "modernized" CPU (x86, ARM and PPC are old designs too). I think it could compete with ARM for small electrical devices. What do you think of this modernized 68k ISA:
 
OpenOffice Writer
http://www.heywheel.com/matthey/Amiga/68kF_PRM.odt
 
PDF
http://www.heywheel.com/matthey/Amiga/68kF_PRM.pdf
 
html
http://www.heywheel.com/matthey/Amiga/68kF_PRM.html
 
I know there is no multiprocessing or caching instructions at this point but they are more dependent on the implementation. What do you like and dislike? Any love for the 68k besides me?

Well Matt,
Unless there was a lot of revision (and  I love the 68K and used to sell 68K based hardware), no contest.
An in order, cacheless processor vs a modern CPU?
We'd lose.
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Offline Iggy

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Re: Power 7 CPU - 8 cores
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2012, 12:32:44 AM »
Quote from: zylesea;706317
http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/homepage.jsp?code=PC68KCF

Coldfire is cool Zylesea, but they won't sell you a V5 and they never produced the V6.
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Offline Iggy

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Re: Power 7 CPU - 8 cores
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2012, 12:56:45 AM »
I will agree with you about code density Matt.
 
But then I come from a 6809 background.
 
That processor was designed with position independant, reentrant code in mind.
 
I can still write code for that that takes up a small fraction of what a "modern" CPU would use.
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Offline Iggy

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Re: Power 7 CPU - 8 cores
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2012, 04:10:51 PM »
The only problem with the arguement about the importance of code density is memory is cheap.
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Offline Iggy

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Re: Power 7 CPU - 8 cores
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2012, 05:22:53 PM »
Quote from: JJ;706412
Just use I7s , much better bang for buck.

Nah, Phenom II X4s (while they're still available).
I picked up a 3.2 GHz 955 for <$80.
Runs at 3.4-3.5.
 
X86 is cheap.
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Offline Iggy

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Re: Power 7 CPU - 8 cores
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2012, 07:55:34 PM »
Quote from: matthey;706417
Code density matters for small electrical devices especially with batteries. That is why I talked about competing with ARM and not x86 on the desktop. I'm thinking of laptops, pads, netbooks, smart phones, embedded devices, fanless desktops where ARM leaves something to be desired and x86_64 is like taking a MAC truck to the grocery store. Better code density also means more instructions in the instruction cache and a smaller instruction fetch is needed. Less memory usage is still a small advantage in general, more so on low end electrical devices.

Actually, ARM has definate advantages in the area.
Its very low power.
X86 isn't quite there yet.
And the 68K never was a low power device.
 
So, arguing the code density issue from that point makes little sense.
 
Quote from: matthey;706417
Can you show me how to program utilizing all the cores?

I noticed that a lot of people have mentioned code modularity.
In the '80s we had a 6809 based point of sales system that had about 255 memory resident concurrent tasks that were all assigned priority levels (Microware OS-9 again).
This type of system would have moved very well into an SMP environment.
 
These days I still tend to code this way. Writing small routines that can thread info to other modules and call other tasks.
With an SMP capable OS this allows the operating system to spread tasks across multiple CPUs. And the software will still run in a single CPU environment.
 
Its not so much asv writing code for multiple CPUs as it is writing code that can run better in a multiple CPU environment.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

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Offline Iggy

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Re: Power 7 CPU - 8 cores
« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2012, 08:31:33 PM »
I had WinXP BSOD on me a couple of months ago while my system was booting and it corrupted the drive rendering it unbootable.
 
Don't think I've had such a drastic crash since the days of DOS based Windows.
 
Since then I've sold most of my Windows hardware and I'm relying on a Win7 equipped netbook.
 
I've got a copy of Snow Leopard and Parallels7. From now on I'm restricting my Windows use to virtualization.
 
I just don't trust Microsoft's software. It blows up too readily.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2012, 10:44:40 PM by Iggy »
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Offline Iggy

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Re: Power 7 CPU - 8 cores
« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2012, 10:44:19 PM »
Quote from: vox;706692
But everyone that can buy SAM or X1000 should do so.

Seriously considering a 460, Vox.
Can't justify an X1000, but I'm hoping that whatever Varisys designs as its sucessor is more affordable.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

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