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Author Topic: Get off the beach! Tsunami coming!  (Read 48158 times)

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Offline Iggy

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Re: Get off the beach! Tsunami coming!
« on: March 11, 2011, 06:59:38 PM »
Quote from: desiv;621252
We're up over 200' looking at the beach here in Lincoln City, Oregon.
We've seen some higher and lower tides than we should be seeing normally.
We've seen some good sized waves, but luckily, that's about it so far.
The Tsunami Warning will last several more hours..

We also have seen people ON THE BEACH...  8-O

No Darwin Awards this time tho..  

desiv

No Darwin Awards this time tho..  

Haha...Probably newscasters. They have no sense of self preservation.
"Darwin Awards"!
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Offline Iggy

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Re: Get off the beach! Tsunami coming!
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2011, 02:26:59 AM »
Frankly, right now the thought of core meltdown occurring at possibly more than one nuclear power plant in Japan is what really scares me.
Anyone care to look up the size of the Chernobyl exclusion zone?
The earthquake was frightening. The tsunami was horrifying.
But containment breech at nuclear plants?

God save the people of Japan.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

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Offline Iggy

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Re: Get off the beach! Tsunami coming!
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2011, 02:44:01 AM »
Quote from: Firedawg;621317
Franko I'm not totally discounting your sentiments on what people do or  not do when others are suffering, but being an emergency worker myself  and have been evolved in natural disaster responses near and far I can  speak first hand that many people are not sitting idle by and watching  as the news is delivered to them on this or any disaster.  When Hurricane  Katrina hit us in 2005 our deployment team saw many examples of humanity  reaching to those who were stricken severely by the devastating storm.   Clothes, food, medical attention (doctors working from RV's), showers,  you name it.  Who needed FEMA, for people like you and me were leading the  charge and lending the helping hand of hope.  

So, Franko I would like for you to know that goodwill is a live and well  and I believe most certainly that goodwill will reach the people of  Japan.  I also believe that if a disaster hit close to your home that  you would extend that same hand of hope to someone who needed it.  

To everyone here commenting on this disaster do not feel any guilt for doing so.  Donations of any kind are appreciated from those who have lost everything, I know I have seen people cry when given a fresh cup of water and some flipflops to place on their feet.  Very very sobering.  

The Dawg

Thank you. I too suffer from a chronic disappointment in my fellow man. But it is exactly at times like this that I see the words and actions of people like you and it help bolster me in times of such horror.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline Iggy

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Re: Get off the beach! Tsunami coming!
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2011, 03:33:48 AM »
Quote from: ElPolloDiabl;621319
Godzilla jokes are out too?

Damn right. Godzilla never caused this much damage! Besides you kind of always root for Godzilla.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline Iggy

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Re: Get off the beach! Tsunami coming!
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2011, 04:25:27 AM »
Quote from: Kesa;621323
What about King Kong? That movie was a disaster! :hammer:

No, Japan was a disaster.
King Kong was yet again another suck ass remake of a 1931 classic.
Freakin Jack Black! What was Peter Jackson thinking?
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline Iggy

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Re: Get off the beach! Tsunami coming!
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2011, 04:34:34 AM »
Quote from: runequester;621328
Godzilla was originally a metaphor for nuclear destruction, so I guess it'd be in bad taste :)

Again, one is fantasy and the violence and destruction are entertaining, the other is a sequence of horrifying natural disasters and potential nuclear catastrophes.

This shit ain't funny guys. I live near the coast and a nuke plant.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline Iggy

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Re: Get off the beach! Tsunami coming!
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2011, 05:05:08 AM »
Quote from: desiv;621334
The Japanese government officially declared a Nuclear Emergency for those reactors.
The main cooling was knocked off-line.  The backup generators we taken out by the Tsunami, so they are cooling with batteries basically, from what I hear.

They released some radioactive steam from at least one of the reactors to aid in its cooling, but apparently nothing that was too high a level...

If they can manage to get the cooling back under control, they should be OK.

It's not likely to become a Chernobyl, but if they can't get it cooled, it could become a 3-Mile Island type of event.

No, IANANS (I am not a Nuclear Scientist), just been googling today.

desiv

Basically, if they lose cooling, they've got about one hour. then it very much is like Chernobyl - Core meltdown, containment failure, very ugly.

They're already near the TMI stage - venting radioactive steam, an unknown level of damage inside the containment vessels.

This is a more serious situation than they are letting on.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline Iggy

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Re: Get off the beach! Tsunami coming!
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2011, 05:54:26 AM »
Quote from: Kesa;621342
Really? That's convenient. The nuke plant could grow you fins and gills and you could just swim away in the event of flooding! :roflmao:

You should have been there when I moved to a rental house within the Civil Defense perimeter they set up for people that live close to these plants. My car was malfunctioning the day I was home for the first test the had for the sirens. Damned creeping not knowing if its a test or the plant just blew up.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline Iggy

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Re: Get off the beach! Tsunami coming!
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2011, 08:06:51 PM »
>If hot water/steam were able to come into contact with the reactor core  at the Japanese installation, a similar explosion would be entirely possible.


That's not the only potential problem, although that very well could happen. We've never seen a complete core melt down, not even at Chernobyl.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline Iggy

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Re: Get off the beach! Tsunami coming!
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2011, 12:04:14 AM »
Quote from: Kesa;621481
Haven't you seen deep impact? Idiot :)

And what about tornadoes. Middle America seems to be tornado alley.

As to the Japanese reactor problem. Unlikely events? The damned structure covering the containment and reactor has failed and these are now sitting in the open.

Or did you miss the footage of that remarkable explosion?

While there hasn't been that much leakage (yet), if they don't keep this thing cooled the core will melt. Its not a matter of whats likely or unlikely. It absolutely will occur.

"There is a possibility, we see the possibility of a meltdown," said  Toshihiro Bannai, director of the international affairs office of  Japan's Nuclear and Industrial Safety, in a telephone interview with CNN  from the agency's Tokyo headquarters. "At this point, we have still not  confirmed that there is an actual meltdown, but there is a possibility.."
« Last Edit: March 13, 2011, 12:12:53 AM by Iggy »
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline Iggy

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Re: Get off the beach! Tsunami coming!
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2011, 12:06:28 AM »
Quote from: XDelusion;621483
Oh SHIT! I forgot about that, not to mention Children of the Corn. Now I'm most certainly screwed!!! :)

BTW - What restrictions are placed on farmers? And isn't mono culture unnatural? Farming is a manipulation of the ecological system.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline Iggy

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Re: Get off the beach! Tsunami coming!
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2011, 12:43:10 AM »
Quote from: cv643d;621492
I did not know it was that serious since this reporting happened on a tiny forum, but who cares....

Frankly, I care. Currently Japan is badly F'd up. Where it not for their high state of preparedness many more people would be dead. As itis thousands are missing and unaccounted for.

They have lost a containment building covering a nuclear reactos and its containment dome to a massive hydrogen explosion that resulted from venting steam from the reactor assembly.

This reactor current has NO cooling and the operators have resorted to admitting seawater and introducing boron (which dampen the reaction rate) in an attempt tp cool the reactor. For hydrogen to be produced the reactor has to be over 2200 degrees F.
If the core reaches 4000 degrees it will melt and the 6 inches of steel forming its primary containment will also melt. The molten materials will conbine with the remaining water to set off a greater explosion (than the hydrogen venting caused) spreading radioactive material over a great distance.

One of two things is going to happen here. First, if they restore the cooling, and meltdown has not started, everything will remain contained. Alternately, if he core temperature continues to rise and then nothing can be done to stop the entire reactor and its containment from melting a failing.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline Iggy

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Re: Get off the beach! Tsunami coming!
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2011, 03:31:20 AM »
Quote from: runequester;621513
Wouldn't that fall under hydro power ?

No, traditional hydro power usually involves dams (although there are some neat systems near large falls).
The problem with dams is that sediment builds up behind the dam progressively decreasing the depth of the water. Dams also prevent the upstream migration of aquatic animals.
Power systems designed to harness wave and tidal action are only starting to be successfully explored.

You also forgot to mention wind power, natural gas (derived from sources other than crude oil), our still plentiful (although far from clean) coal reserves, cellulosic alcohol, and algal and plant derived oils and alcohol.

@ Franko - Well old sod, I'd prefer to die in my sleep blissfully unaware of my own passing rather the face something painful like death from radiation poisoning or cancer. But I don't think God lets you choose.

BTW - If any of you were watching CNN a few minutes ago you would have heard Bill Nye mention that cesium was detected in the material ejected during the explosion at the one nuke plant in Japan.
For those of you who don't know what that means, cesium is the material used in the control rods of a nuclear plant (it absorbs radioactive particles and slows the reaction rate).
For cesium to be found in the vapor expelled in the hydrogen explosion, some part of the control rods has not just melted, but vaporized.
Further, if the cesium is melting, then the reaction rate will increase.
Remember, we didn't even learn about Chernobyl till weeks after the event. Its only recently become common knowledge that Three Mile Island experience some melting.
It seems likely that some melting is occurring in the reactor in Japan.
As I've mentioned before, should temperatures continue rise the fuel rods and the inner steel containment will melt.
Ever put water into boiling oil?
Well then image the result of combining water and molten, highly radioactive metal.
This accident has already surpassed TMI. This reactor will never be restored and placed back on line.
And it is still possible that a massive explosion will level this reactor and that the molten pool of materials from it will only stop spreading out until it has cooled enough to solidify.

During my childhood this used to be called the "China Syndrome" because no one yet knows how far a reactors slag could spread.

By far though, the spread of radioactive material from the potential explosion will be the worst. We learned that in Belarus. Again, you should all look up information on the Chernobyl Exclusion Zone.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2011, 03:33:42 AM by Iggy »
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline Iggy

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Re: Get off the beach! Tsunami coming!
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2011, 05:47:25 AM »
Quote from: ciento;621517
The life expectancy in civilized fossil fuel burning nations goes up in spite of the much hyped poison, the lungs are marvelous filters, and outlast the other organs when not abused, so I call BS on the filthy rich fraudsters behind the green cult, they simply want to tax and regulate the free middle class into oblivion, so their world government faces no resistance. Anybody see Al Gore, or Michael Moore volunteering to shovel the globally warmed snow? They much prefer shovelling cash from throngs of adoring indoctrinated mall rats. I support all alternative energies that don't require up-front taxpayer subsidies, or divert commodity food crops, leading to international chaos and worse.

Your Oregon State University has great designs for very small nuclear power plants,
I just hope somebody has the brains and guts to start building them!


Actual I think most of your is rubbish, but I have seen the plans for the small reactors you mentioned and they seem quite safe. Especially when compared to a forty year old Japanese reactor that does have the thermo-siphoning back up cooling systems newer plants have (no pumps necessary=safer shutdown).
Nuclear energy can be reasonably safe, but the older plants ARE dangerous.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline Iggy

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Re: Get off the beach! Tsunami coming!
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2011, 06:34:49 PM »
Quote from: smerf;621553
Hi,

@Iggy,

Believe me I think I will hire myself out to the gov't, cause I have plenty of wind power, and after my wind power is used to run the turbines, they can always burn it for steam power.

smerf

;) Maybe we can harvest the methane from all those cow farts that Republicans were blaming for Global Warming until they decided to deny climate change totally.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"