Ben Hermans still staunchly against x86

[Iggy]

I think you guys are missing a vital point.
If AOS4 was ported to X86 processors, do you really think they'd sell a lot more copies? Or would most PC users still continue to use Windows, OSX, and maybe Linux?
Who would they sell it to? Us, the fanatics willing to still support this market (and there really aren't many of us).

Why are we constantly rehashing our personal opinions on platforms when we already have variants covering every major processor type except ARM?

And I'm baffled at the X1000 bashing. If you don't like the high price (which again folks is primarily caused by the low volume limited market) and you want an X86 machine support AROS. Yes the X1000 is overpriced, but I'm know the designer and Treavor hired to only company I'm aware of that could have built a machine to this spec. It may be the last major PPC system introduced, and yes its definately a vanity machine because its spec are damned nice.
Further if PPCs are dead, why are Appliedv Micro and Freescale still introducing new models?

Again, no matter what your prejudice, there's an Amiga related system available (or about to be introduced) that will suit you.
Totally into pain? Stick with legacy hardware. Its still out there (even NOS systems) and there's still software and hardware being developed for it. And if you're patient (and have a lot of faith) you can wait for the Natami.
Those of us who have gotten over the whole "Amiga" name things and just want to continue to evolve are using MorphOS (and we welcome Hyperion to the PPC table because virtually any software created for AOS4 is likely to be ported to MOS).

And again, want to use only one core of your X86 machine and tout a 3d graphics system that's still pretty buggy? Use AROS, because they will keep improving it.

I've said this before on this forum, but it bears repeating, the diversity of our hardware is not a negative thing its a positive.If you want an Amiga like OS on a specific platform, all you have to do is switch which variant your using.

Stop trying to tell me my choice is wrong. After all, we're all a liittle crazy for continuing to support the development of this stuff this long (when all the major players in the game trashed the reputation of our market with BS and broken promises).

[Iggy]

Its funny Alan, I find myself agreeing with you on far to many points.

I like using what I'm using and have been assured that we're sticking with this direction for the time being. But even MorphOS could one day end up on X86 machines. I mean where will we go when the PPC hardware drys up?

Right now, your point on limiting hardware support is extremely correct. There's just too much hardware to consider writing drivers for all X86 related devices. That's why packaged AROS systems make sense (and of course those of us who want to build it ourserlves would just have to focus on similar components).

And if AOS4 goes X86, maybe we can get a firesale price on X1000s (which even though Piru is amidantly against it, I'd love to see a port of MOS for it).

And the basic point of this discussion is economics. Acube's boards are not only high priced but they use some really slow Applied Micro processors. The X1000's even higher priced and is based on a processor that has no future (its funny that when I e-mailed the board's designer over a half a year ago he stated that instead of designing around PA Semi's processors he'd lean toward Frescale's communications oriented PPCs).

Since I can build an AROS machine for only slightly more than I've spent on my Powermac,  the current pricing of AOS4 hardware is hard to defend. Especially when my sub $100 Powermac walks all over Acube's boards (and while used itsa complete computer not just a motherboard).

How can Amigans be expected to pony up $1000 to $2000 when I can assemble a competent X86 system for about $500?

Being one of the people hanging on to PPC based systems, I love a new vanity based too cool for words piece of hardware. I just can't wrap my mind around the pricing.

[Iggy]

No, unlike ACK this hardware has been seen and it was designed by a company with a good track record that delivers what it promises.
It bugs me that you guys doubt that, I enchanged e-mails with the Xena's designer months before his company was revealed as the source of the design.
Blame Hyperion. This board requires a lot of new drivers and they just don't have the development resources to get this port out quickly.

I'm still amuzed that some of you disparage MorphOS when they have numerous developers working on their OS. What does Hyperion have? Two?

Hey, maybe if Treavor had sent a populated motherboard to the MOS team (instead of a bare one) he would have an OS by now (then again, maybe not, MOS developers won't release products until they're throughly debug and work right).

Don't worry, you'll see X1000s eventual (although I'd bet the OS won't be perfect out the door). And I'm still willing to bet that there will be a few fanatics with money burning holes in their pockets that will buy them.

I'll keep looking for a G5 Powermac, maybe buy n AROS system, and bank the other $1000.

[Iggy]

Everyone has an opinion about future directions. ARM processors, tablets, advanced cellphones, etc all have been repeatedly posted.

Personallly, I can't type on a pocket device and tablets usually offer little in thw way of keyboards other than screen based touch keyboards. Frankly, I'm so o;d fashioned I still prefer old click style keyboards with keyswitches from companies like Alps. That's why I still have a couple of old IBM and Tandy keyboards around. Good keyswitches+better feedback and less typing errors.

I may eventually even get around to adopting a laptop, but I'm not giving up my PC yet.

[Iggy]

Actually Hyperion got AmigaOS and the source code in the lawsuit.  It's not a license, Hyperion are the owners.

You didn't read the decision, did you? Hyperion and A. Inc.'s  resolution gives Hyperion an exclusive license to use AmigaOS3.1 to develop AmigaOS4, AOS5 a future variants as well as the right to use the AmigaOS name. They apparently as also allowed (with their associated companies) to market computers as AmigaOne computers.

The fact that they don't have control over the brand name Amiga is what led CUSA to be able to negotiate with A. Inc. for the use of that trademark on other computers.

[Iggy]

No, I didn't, but I should have double-checked myself.

I can't find the decision, but the wording I read all over the net seems like more than a license.



Serious question: How does that differ from ownership?  It's a perpetual and exclusive right, which sounds like ownership to me.

In the long run, there is no real difference (except that other license holders like Cloanto can still distribute their products).

I'm still not convinced that Amiga Inc. claim to ownership of these properties was valid. So the agreement really helps Hyperion since they now can claim to be the valid holder of the preperty.

[Iggy]

The desktop flora would look very different today, had Jobs had acted differently regarding the clones. As would the situation for PPC.

Probably true, but then Apple would have had to focus on making money via their OS and forego all that lucrative income they get from rigorously controlling their hardware market.

Steve Jobs is no genius when it comes to the design of hardware or software (hey, if you doubt me I've got some old Apple IIIs I'd like to sell you), but his marketing skills have made him I very wealthy man.

How many times have you heard an Apple customer tout something he thinks is superior (that Apple constricts in features or how its used) and defends paying more than he would for it in a more open market (maybe because he likes Steve mining his pockets while telling him what he can do with his purchase).

[Iggy]

PPC cards in the EU go for 300-400 bucks so that's 500-700 dollars for the PPC cards alone. Maybe the real answer for OS4 increased user numbers is a new PPC board for A1200s and some tower cases. At least then it is a real Amiga + extras.  How much is a 604 PPC CPU in bulk alone though?

As to others, OS4 is an alternative to Windows, as is Linux and OS X. Choice is a good thing. The problem has always been value for money hardware to run the damned thing on!

Your last point reflects pretty much what everybogy has repeatedly said, the cost of the f'ing hardware's too high.

And how many 1200s are left that someone going to start PPC accelerator production again? How big is the market? 50?100? A few hundred?

Hey at least its a real Amiga?

Thank god I haven't waited for that train. It ain't pulling out of the station

[Iggy]

Pegasos 1 & 2 and Efika 5200b were produced in Germany. Hence I think this China argument is rather void. And if Italy was that expensive I guess Bruxelles should really kick some arses in Roma. And why is a Fiat or Alfa then not x times more expensive than a Volkswagen or Mercedes... Poducing in Italy is not that expensive if done right.

Zylesea has a point. Chinese manufacturing could help lower the cost of a mass produced motherboard. The affect on a low volume board wouldn't be as significant.
But I'd be surprisped if Acube's suggested retail wasn't about twice the manufactering cost.
Small manufacturers used to dealing with the embedded/industrial market often sell low volume products at steep prices.
I'd like to know what Acube's primary market is.