Hyperion/A-EON introduce us to the AmigaOne X1000. A new beginning?

[Iggy]

Unfortunately, I don't think any such people exist now. All those that were able to make objective comparisons have already done so and made their choice.

What's left are people that will stick only with OS4 or MOS on principle.

Or at least that's how it seems these days.

Frankly, I don't think objectivity blinds one from making a choice based on qualitative judgments.
Both OS have a similar price. Both are 32bit, don't support SMP, and run on PPC processors.
But MorphOS is slightly more refined, faster in many operations, and supports lower cost hardware.
AmigaOS supports new hardware, may soon support more advanced graphics cards, and well they're allowed to call it AmigaOS.
While I admire A-eon's new design, I'll probably stick with Macs and MorphOS.

But in no way does this mean I'm not happy AOS4 is available (or AROS for that matter). It should be much easier to develop titles that work amongst these OS', then it would be to port software from the outside. And, hey, more options, more users. I think the perception that MorphOS users don't value other Amiga descended OS' relates to our posts about specific advantages we believe our OS offers. It's not one upsmanship, or bias, its just based one experience and frequent comparisons.

Again, I really hope AOS remains viable and the hardware vendors for it succeed in finding their market.
Also, I'm really impressed with the progress of AROS.
MorphOS without Genesi is actually looking better than ever.
Its nice to have all these choices.

[Iggy]

I think OS4/MOS in particular need each other more than most users care to admit.

Sure, you get fanbois on either side that like to slate the opposition at every opportunity, but they are, without exception, idiots, in my book.

As long as both OS4 and MOS exist, there is competition and with that progression overall. If either one died, it is very unlikely it's user base would migrate over (hell would probably have to freeze first) and you'd be left with one expensive proprietary OS on fundamentally obsolete hardware that, in the absence of it's old sparring partner as a metric, has absolutely nothing to offer over free alternatives on up-to-date hardware. Only the most dedicated users would remain.

On this point, I think we wholly agree. Just like AMD's competition forced Intel to develop an alternative to their Netburst/P4 architecture, competition amongst Amiga like OS' will keep driving development.
And when you think about it, we're not competing on identical platforms.
For everyone that keeps insisting either MorphOS or AmigaOS should be ported to the X86 architecture, hey that product already exists. Its called AROS. AmigaOS provides a recognizable name on some interesting new hardware. And finally, MorphOS has been running on Amigas since the the shift to PPC began and is still evolving to support more platforms.

As factions amongst us argue over specific points, the larger point is somehow missed. With all this activity, things are going pretty good for our community.

Does anyone out there miss Amiga Inc? Since the settlement in Hyperion's favor, interest and the pace of development seems to have increased.

[Iggy]

And this is different to the current situation in what way?

We currently have two expensive proprietary OSs on fundamentally obsolete hardware that have absolutely nothing to offer over free alternatives on up-to-date hardware. Only the most dedicated users remain.

Except that, so far, the free alternatives haven't proven to be stable enough.
Linux developers have made this argument for years and have made little inroad into Windows' and OSX's market.
While I like AROS, I don't consider 111 euros too expensive for a MorphOS license (the developers aren't making any real income on this one).

And, as to the statement that only the most dedicated remain, I see old users returning and people who didn't use Amiga equipment joining our community.
If you think we can match the development resources devoted to pushing the continuously upgraded systems present in Apple and PC markets you're deluded.
But, I do see our niche market slowly expanding, NOT collapsing.

Do you think the the phrase under your names is:

A)  an old Judas Priest album
B)  A religious zealots devotion
C)  or was the phrase chosen to make a point?

[Iggy]

Frankly I've never found a Linux variant I wanted to keep and use everyday.
And I'll admit that MorphOS is not a main stream OS, but with about 1% of the market, neither is Linux (and not only am I willing to leave MorphOS installed, I use it and am willing to pay for it).

Also, our Italian friend is right, everything mainstream looks like an Amiga these days.
I just regret the friction that did exist between 68K system users. I used several different 68K based systems and the only one I was consistently disappointed by was Apple.

Further, I see no point in zealously promoting one type of Amiga related OS or hardware above another. I glad that all these projects exist. It shows a continuing (not waning) interest in the platform.

[Iggy]

OSX's market share is about 5%. While small its significant that that is 5 times Linux's market share and Linux is divided between hundreds of variants on almost any platform imaginable.
What would appear to be Linux's two main strengths, its price and its availability have not been enough to drive its user base above that of commercial OS'.
Regardless of the number of developers you have working on Linux projects, frequently the quality and features available on commercial software running under Windows or OSX is superior.

As to Apple's drive to enable content creation, yes they consider that an important selling point, but I intensely dislike Apple's level of control over how and what you can do with their products.
Also, having seen numerous poorly executed products intoduced by Apple (including, but not limited to, the AppleIII, the Newton, the iPad) I have to wonder if their much touted design prowess isn't a hit or miss phenomenon.
Frankly, I just don't like Jobs and  I'm not that impressed with the product.

So, if I've got to give my money to a large vendor who's OS is primarily built on stolen ideas, I give it to the big Satan - Gates and Co. at Microsoft.

Also, at one time I believed that memory conservation was important and I was writing position independant reentrant 68K code. But memory's cheap. Vista (and Win7) like WinXP before it use extra memory to buffer hardware operations and speed up the entire OS. WinXP will run under 512MB (even less), but it really works better at 2gigs. Vista and Win7 will run with1 gig but they run better with 2gigs and more always better. Again, memorys cheap, why worry about it?

[Iggy]

There's 160.000 android phones sold per day that would like to have a word with you.

Linux isn't just a desktop OS

Phones aren't computers.
And I never said I didn't admire some of the features of Linux. I've downloaded at least a hundred variants. I just haven't found one I wanted to use on a regular basis.

BTW - Did you notice that the object of your point was a commercial product. Maybe, that and volume could be considered some of the important features of a mainstream OS Certainly, Android is a mainstream phone OS.

[Iggy]

How fast Windows7 runs (especially when compared to WinXP) is relative to the hardware you're running it on.
Even Vista is not really any slower with decent hardware.
The only reason I keep an XP based system around is to run a few packages that won't run under Vista or Win7.
I have no problem with your perception of WinXP being much faster than Win7, but on higher end equipment that hasn't been my experience .

[Iggy]

I run all my emulation on xeon dual processor system under nt 2000. works like a charm. Also, its the only machine that has multiple parallel ports for commodore 1541 drives. Works great!

That's a neat idea. Back when PC still used ISA expansion cards I used to plug in one or two additional parallel controllers. On today's motherboards you're lucky to have one parallel port (they're slowly being eliminated) and I'm not sure about current support for additional ports for PCI or PCIe expansions.

I've always been curious about people hanging on to 2000 though. Since all recent Microsoft OS' have been offshoots of the NT kernel, what prevents you from using a more recent version of Windows?

[Iggy]

Um my phone is defo a computer.  Look up nokia N900

There may be some cross over between the two, but I can't see a phone as a substitute for a computer.

Checking email? Seems valid enough. At least if you can avoid having to access a web page.

Isn't text messaging supposed to be the way to go with phones? I'll leave that to people that want to and can master those little keys (I'd rather talk directly or leave a voice message that will probably be ignored).

Using the internet? Maybe you want to do this, but with their tiny screens and limited resolution I'd rather avoid the eye strain.

Apps? Lots of them, plenty of poor ones (along with more than a few games I've got no interest in), but I'm not doing my word processing on a phone (not if I can avoid it).

Is everything with a microprocessor a computer? If not, is everything with a microprocessor that can do some of the things a computer can do a computer? What the hell is the iPad? And finally, do I want all these devices (cause the phone isn't going to make a adequate replacement for all them yet)?
Far too many question, You keep thinking of your phone as a computer. I'll keep wondering when somebody's going to tell me their wristwatch is a computer.

[Iggy]

I Have 2000, I do not want to spend the money on Ultimate to make use of the dual processors. 2000 works great for what I use this computer for.

I forgot about that one. Seems fairly stupid to support multi-core processors and not systems with multiple processors. what was Microsoft thinking?

Doesn't XP allow you to use two processors?

[Iggy]

ok 800X 480 res not billiant.  But my phone will connect to telly.  wll connect to a bluetooth keyboard, though even has one.  Can connect wii controller, and ps3 controllers.  Runs linux, had an amiga emulator, plus snes, megadrive etc.  had 600mhz arm proc whoch can do 1ghz.  cant be botherd to go on beacuse whislt i wold never use my phone as a replacement for desktop/laptop  its a computer under any defination you can think of.

With those specifications I will definitely concede to you that is indeed a computer.
What is fairly impressive is the resolution you're quoting, the idea of connecting a bluetooth keyboard, and using an external display.
You've almost made me want one.

Frighteningly close to the productivity of a small PPC nettop. Leave it to Nokia to come up with something more attractive than a Blackberry or iPhone.

[Iggy]

As for linux as a desktop OS. Sure it is free, as long as your time is worth absolutely nothing. I have better things to do than to scour forums and read tech articles to get a computer to do anything.

:roflmao:Bingo! And God save you if something crashes. In my earlier days with Windows, I often found myself reinstalling the OS, but nowadays a few of the installations I have have moved from one platform to another.
Linux on the other hand still has me frequently doing total re-installs.

And I'll agree with you that I, again, see virtually no speed difference between XP and 7 (unless you're running dated hardware).

[Iggy]

I think its time I called the RSPP (Royal Society for the Protection of Penguins), because some of you guys must really be abusing Linux, I have 2 machines here running that haven't been reinstalled for 2-3 years they just keep on going. I've upgraded the versions and all my application and data are available immediately after upgrade. I had to did into the forums to sort out the wifi on my netbook in earlier (8.odd) version but that work straight away now. My oldest install (OpenSuse 9) is probably over 6 years since it last had a boot CD near it.  

@Iggy
Everything with a programmable processor (not necessary Micro) must be a computer, since when did available IO dictate whether a machine is a computer or not? A phone or a watch or even a central heating timer if it contains a programmable processor is a computer. Otherwise the server under my desk which only has a power lead and a network connection could not be called a computer as I can't use it without access to another device that does the IO.

Gaz

In the broadest sense you're correct, but I'm not accessing the internet or using other apps on my thermostat. I'd love to close that whole argument by redefining what I meant from computer to personal computer (which, oddly enough, wouldn't include your server unless you're the only one using it).

And I'm glad you've had such a good experience using Linux. I assume that once you find a distro you like, that the experience you've had is not uncommon. Over the last several years I've seen enough improvement in Linux that I may dedicate at least a hard drive on one system to it.

While I am a MorphOS user, I'd readily admit that Linux is perhaps the only really large open OS/kernel in existence and its success   is impressive.

[Iggy]

Didn't read all the way through the thread, but a surprising number of you don't seem to be aware of the x1000's cxPU. It was even mentioned breify in one of their own press statements.
 
It's a PA Semi PA6t formerly running at 1.8Ghz, now clocked at 2.0 Ghz.

[Iggy]

So any beta testers get their board yet?

Somehow I doubt it.

As to the CPUs, A-eon and Varisys secured them when PA Semi put out a request for final orders.
Its no great mystery. PA Semi was shutting down production and didn't want new customers (that might depend on an item that was eol).