Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Author Topic: Surface 3 - New direction, higher prices and crappy i3  (Read 50924 times)

Description:

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Duce

  • Off to greener pastures
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Posts: 1699
    • Show all replies
    • http://amigabbs.blogspot.com/
Didn't say it couldn't pack a lot of punch, and I'm sure such a system is great for the vast, vast majority of people.

For what I require out of a gaming PC, it wouldn't cut the mustard by a long shot, is all.
 

Offline Duce

  • Off to greener pastures
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Posts: 1699
    • Show all replies
    • http://amigabbs.blogspot.com/
Hey Iggy,

In this machine, which is actually an older gaming PC from a few years ago - an i7 2600K, 32 GB RAM, nVidia 590.  My main gaming machine has a 4930K oc'ed a wee bit, 32 GB RAM, and 2 Titan cards.  Original Titan cards, not the new Titan Black.  Both run SSD's, this machine having a 240 GB OCZ for the boot drive and a standard SATA 1 TB drive for media, and the other more powerful machine has a 1 TB Samsung SSD solely.  Those drives were on sale recently for $460 so I had to snap one up, been real happy with it thus far.

The 4930 runs a bit hot for my tastes and I should have water cooled it from the start, but the Zalman cooler I have on it keeps it within range.
 

Offline Duce

  • Off to greener pastures
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Posts: 1699
    • Show all replies
    • http://amigabbs.blogspot.com/
It stays well within reasonable heat envelopes with the Zalman cooler, and I'm not a big fan of the closed loop water cooling solutions.  I like water cooling, but only when I do it myself, and it just wasn't worth the effort on this machine.  The machine sees a fair bit of transport to LAN parties and such, so keeping it simple worked for me.

SSD's are far faster than even the old WD Raptor RAID 0 arrays I used to use, so I went that way.

As for i5 vs. i7, I also do a fair bit of video and graphics work on the machine as well, so I opted for the i7.  Had it been solely for gaming I liked would have gone 780ti cards vs. the Titan's as well.
 

Offline Duce

  • Off to greener pastures
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Posts: 1699
    • Show all replies
    • http://amigabbs.blogspot.com/
I feel the same about SSD's, Gertsy, and finally just built myself a FreeNAS box full of WD Red drives for backups.

Once every 24 hours all my systems plop a disk image file of all their drives on that FreeNAS machine, which is running a pretty hefty RAID 5 setup using ZFS.  Works a treat.
 

Offline Duce

  • Off to greener pastures
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Posts: 1699
    • Show all replies
    • http://amigabbs.blogspot.com/
I have no doubts they will kill RT off entirely.  That being said, they simply haven't announced it yet.  They should be ashamed for ever bringing RT out, imo.  Nothing says "customer satisfaction" like buying an RT tablet with a "Windows" sticker on it then realizing it actually doesn't run traditional x86 programs in the least.

This last Surface event was originally sent out as "just something small", hinting about the Surface Mini, which was supposed to be an RT device as well.  Depending on who you believe, MS may have indeed made many of these and at the last minute changed the press release to be solely for the Surface 3.  Some Windows oriented sites claim up 10,000 to 20,000 of the Surface Mini RT tablets were indeed made, but they put them into stillbirth mode from Elop's orders.  I'm sure in 20 years some will be uncovered in a landfill in Alamogordo or somewhere, ET cartridge style.  :roflmao:

http://bgr.com/2014/05/20/microsoft-surface-mini-release/
« Last Edit: May 28, 2014, 01:53:15 AM by Duce »
 

Offline Duce

  • Off to greener pastures
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Posts: 1699
    • Show all replies
    • http://amigabbs.blogspot.com/
I understand your point entirely, but I also think if RT is turning out to be such a terrible mistake for them as you or I think it is, they might be better off cutting their losses in order to protect what they still have in regards to a "good name".  I'd honestly just kill the line off entirely, fire sale whatever is left after saying "RT is over" and let it be.  I compare it much to the Apple Newton fiasco, I'd just kill the damned thing off, take the jokes people will inevitably make, and cut my losses.  I'd quit playing the charade and take a bullet on it and just dump the things off at $99 a pop and never mention "RT" again.

RT is a disaster, and I'm convinced were it not related to Windows Phone so tightly and MS still trying to merge RT and WP8, they would have axed it long ago.  It's terrible.  I've heard people make jokes comparing it to Blackberry 10, but it's actually far, far worse.  BB10 is too little too late, where as RT as far as I am concerned is a very ugly wolf in sheeps clothing that I honestly consider that Microsoft has been actively deceptive in the marketing of it.  I *DO* know people that have bought an RT tablet off the shelves of Best Buy, having seen the things priced reasonably, the sales staff and in store documentation boasting about it "being Windows!", then they get the thing home and it runs no real Windows software.  A friend of my mother's did exactly that, looking for a little tablet to take on vacation to email her grandkids and also to play the little games she plays on her Windows PC.  At least she can still email with it, lol.  Otherwise it's a rather expensive doorstop.

RT has been worse for MS than the Zune, the Kin, than pretty much ANYTHING, lol.  People saw a "Windows" tablet in stores, went out and bought them, only to find out they do not run "real Windows" in the least.
RT is far different than the Zune, however.  I owned a Zune.  I loved the hardware - just LOVED it, but MS were too late to the game and I got sucked into the Apple ecosystem where I can find everything I could ever possibly want.  RT is just plain bad, it's not "too little, too late", it's just plain bad.

Try one, I dare you.  

Better yet, go to Best Buy, grab any various Windows Desktop App off the shelf, wander up to the RT tablets, wait for a Salesman to ask you if you need help.  Show him the boxed software, mention you want to run it on "that" tablet.  I'm willing to put 75% odds that he'd sell you the software and the RT tablet without blinking, and all the wishful thinking won't let you run that copy of say Elements on the Surface RT.

Money isn't that important to MS.  They lost billions over the years on the Xbox line, only starting to get above water after the 360 eventually became profitable.

It's been estimated that losses between Windows Phone, Skype and Xbox collectively may cost MS $2.5 in losses a year.  MS can eat those losses easily if their numbers show that the offerings in that sector will eventually become profitable.  WP is gaining traction, but it's still a loss.  Skype, I have no doubt it will become profitable, but I also fear MS will screw it up long before that happens - it's bad enough already.  Xbox division I think will be flogged off to someone else entirely.  Xbox One is bleeding money as well, they underestimated Sony and over estimated Kinect, for one.

I'd give RT the proverbial Viking Funeral it deserves.  I don't think the Surface 3, the full version will fare much better market share wise, but there at least *is* some market for it in Enterprise.

If I were MS, I'd simply give up the ghost and drop the hammer to save face.  Just admit RT was a mistake, flog what is left off for cheap, if they sell, great - if not, oh well.  I'd consider that the "right" thing to do rather than the rather evasive and deceptive marketing they have been doing with RT.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2014, 04:39:57 AM by Duce »
 

Offline Duce

  • Off to greener pastures
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Posts: 1699
    • Show all replies
    • http://amigabbs.blogspot.com/
Same was said about Google when they started selling the Nexus devices.
Their defense was then "we wanted to show our Android partners what we considered the baseline Android handset experience".

It did work out quite well for them, all things considered - and has bettered the Android handset market experience.  Most Android handset makers have trimmed down their "Cruft" factor considerably, with the exception of Samsung.  Motorola, HTC, Sony and even LG have an experience that isn't *TOO* far off the vanilla Android experience lately.  Samsung is still an unmitigated trainwreck of dopey skins and useless add-ons on top of Android, though.  The new Motorola phones, you'd be hard pressed to spot much difference between Android on them and the plain jane vanilla experience, and they have won many fans with this.
A vast majority of people that bitch about Android being buggy and slow rightfully do so because all they have ever used is the crapware Samsung type TouchWiz UI garbage.

It worked well for Google and didn't harm the competition.  Many people, and I am one of them - love the vanilla Android experience on the Nexus devices, I just never got into them too much because I always required a card slot for additional storage.  I love my old Google Play edition HTC One, and I despised the plain HTC version with their UI.

MS is doing the same thinking with the Surface line, trying to pass it off as a "baseline standard" as to what a Windows tablet *should* be.  Quite frankly, up to the Surface 3, I think they have failed at it miserably and I agree that they have done nothing more than creating friction with their long time hardware partners, but I'm sure they will learn this soon the hard way.

The Surface 3 is a far better device, but it's not going to take over the world.  Most people find something like an iPad a far better option usage case wise, since a good chunk of people buy tablets as consumption devices solely.  There's a market for the full Windows experience on a tablet, but it's a small and very specific market - the enterprise market, really.
 

Offline Duce

  • Off to greener pastures
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Posts: 1699
    • Show all replies
    • http://amigabbs.blogspot.com/
How do you like the Fire, anyways?

Got one of the original Kindle's for reading and just love the thing, but haven't had much hands on with the newer ones yet.
 

Offline Duce

  • Off to greener pastures
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Posts: 1699
    • Show all replies
    • http://amigabbs.blogspot.com/
The Skype thing looks great, if it works well.  But I'm 110% sure all the video demos are just canned, B roll film of it working nearly perfectly with the fails edited out.  It's too glaring to miss the fact there's a man of Indian persuasion speaking English to a woman speaking German and BY LAWD, it's working flawlessly, translated on the fly.  I do not wish to seem racial here, but the various accents of people REALLY throw recognition software.  I've got a Scottish friend that owns an iPhone and when he uses Siri, he might as well be speaking Klingon to it.  The video of the demo just seems too "put on".  If it works as shown, it'll be revolutionary - but I'm willing to wager Google gets their product far better in a far shorter amount of time than anyone else.  Google now (and the related speech recognition and translation services they have) is vastly superior than anything else by a wide margin.

Honestly, it reminds me of a youtube clip that was recently released by a broadband provider in the US.  

The video showed a bunch of "hardcore gamers" trying this FANTASTIC LAG FREE GAMING EXPERIENCE at some mock convention and these guys were just raving about it.  1 minute after the clip was released to the public, it was duly pointed out the game said HARDCORE GAMERS were trying does not even come in an online/multiplayer form, lol.  There's not much truth in advertising.

Kinect is, quite frankly - the sh!ts.  I have a hard time swallowing that MS have made Skype that much better, and it all is coming from the same company.  IMHO (Skype), it's 100% less stable and 1000% more bloated than it was just a few years ago.  I'm forced to use Skype on a daily basis and I just despise it.
 

Offline Duce

  • Off to greener pastures
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Posts: 1699
    • Show all replies
    • http://amigabbs.blogspot.com/
The guy that wrote the article has pretty fairly been accused of overstating his importance while he was at MS, and has also been accused of writing solely for "clickbait" factor - which I tend to agree on the latter.
 

Offline Duce

  • Off to greener pastures
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Posts: 1699
    • Show all replies
    • http://amigabbs.blogspot.com/
8.1 update 1 is a vast improvement, but I can see why people dislike it still.

Outside of the slightly "flatter" appearance, you couldn't really tell this W8 PC from the W7 one beside it.  All the Legoland Metro crap can be tucked away and never seen again quite easily, and W8 is far faster than 7.
 

Offline Duce

  • Off to greener pastures
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Posts: 1699
    • Show all replies
    • http://amigabbs.blogspot.com/
And every person in the MS related Press areas still refers to it as "Metro" behind closed doors.  Some call it Windows Store Apps, some say "Modern UI".  Call it what you like.  I call the brick a brack "formerly known as Metro" simply "Legoland Design School".  

Even the most fervent MS press folks like MJ Foley, Ed Bott, and our own illustrious ex Amigan, Paul Thurrott use the Metro term in passing still.  You can gild a turd, but I can still smell the stink :)  But let's not get into semantics, it's just a name.

It (Metro) indeed was full, blazing official term at one time, but they hit a lawsuit snag on it.
 

Offline Duce

  • Off to greener pastures
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Posts: 1699
    • Show all replies
    • http://amigabbs.blogspot.com/
Quote from: persia;765602
You didn't watch today's WWDC Keynote.  iPhones, iPads, Macs are all extensions of the same thing.  It's an information ecosystem that shares everything within it.  If you are at all interested in Apple watch the Keynote, the vision is back.


I watched the keynote, and all I saw was Apple attempting to drag people even further into their walled garden ecosystem.  An ecosystem it's already hard to get out of.  I don't trust Apple any more than I do any other company with their clouds, I guess.  I say this as an owner and user of Apple products.

I also see them trying to do to OS X what they have done to iOS, the "appification" of everything.  Nothing new, really.

I remember when WWDC was a highly anticipated event that was sure to bring some real innovations.  The highlight of WWDC this year was Swift, the rest was just rehash and slight evolution, or making things functional that should have been better long ago (Mail).
 

Offline Duce

  • Off to greener pastures
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Posts: 1699
    • Show all replies
    • http://amigabbs.blogspot.com/
Re: Surface 3 - New direction, higher prices and crappy i3
« Reply #27 on: June 07, 2014, 11:09:22 AM »
SysAdmin, if you are claiming that an enterprise situation would order a new fleet of PC's with Windows 8 installed and "roll back" to 7, you've never so much as stepped a toe into the trade.  I've seen you make a lot of silly statements, but this one takes the cake.  What company in their right mind is ordering machines single OEM style with an OS they do not want then rolling back to W7?  When you can buy the machines with *NO* OS, and deal with MS on volume license for pennies on the dollar on any version of Windows you wanted?  Why would they dick around?  They wouldn't, and they aren't, never have.  You or I can order a PC with 8 OR 7, or no OS at all if need be.  Enterprise don't buy hardware  with an OS installed when they can just group license the OS from MS for far cheaper.

Company I subcontract for just deployed new laptops to over 2,000 technicians.  Not one came with 8 installed.  In fact, not one came with *ANY* OS installed.  They came as bare hardware and the IT guys rolled out the whole shebang from a very large, very fast server that installed the OS and every little other specific thing from AD setup to ID card software without doing anything more than rolling an image file onto the bare drive. Takes a few minutes over gigabit ethernet to image a new system to a PC with an SSD, tops.  They all run Win 7, for the record - just like all enterprise systems, they are always (and wisely) one gen back.  The hardware vendor supplied no OS on the machines at all.

People in the industry REALLY DO NOT have an admin running around with a box of 2,000 W7 cd's to install on a system with w8 on it, because they aren't ordering an OS on the machines.  If you know someone in an enterprise situation that is ordering bulk computers with W8 then hauling ass around installing 7 on them, that man should be executed on principle alone and forced out of the IT industry.

There's no guy screaming bloody murder about the evils of W8 in the enterprise world, because quite frankly more enterprise customers are just rolling on to Win SEVEN and tons are still on XP.  In fact, the people that outright buy the latest OS in OEM form are very, very slim.  MS themselves will tell you that the vast majority of Win 8 users are general users that got the OS on a new machine they bought, vs. guys "upgrading" their existing W7 or XP PC's to 8.  Very few people storm out the door to buy the latest and greatest OS for their existing machines - even Apple know this, which is why the last 2 revs of OS X are entirely free.  Apple make more cash off the ecosystem than they ever would on $20 OS upgrades - their adoption rate of the latest and greatest would be on par with Win 8 if people had to pay for it, something the press always leaves out.  Win 8 is a $100+ OS, where as OS X upgrades are free - pretty glaring who's going to have the better numbers.  Windows 8 is not even on the radar for enterprise, most would still be running XP is MS didn't kill support for it.  Enterprise is always 1 if not 2 gens behind.  Hell, some of the companies I subcontract for still have Win 2000 and 2003 machines in production roles if they aren't too close to the shiny side of things..

On a final note?  How do you Apple apologists feel about Microsoft Bing being the standard for OS X Yosemite search?  Gotta sting, I bet - the Great Satan MS now being the go to guy by default for Apple search wise :)

I do love how every post of yours is absolutely linkbaited for maximum clickthroughs, though :)  Ever notice that, people?  Every mention of "windows" or ipad" or "iphone" gets a link?  :)  Don't begrudge a guy trying to pay the bills, but be subtle, eh?  Hope this post of mine shows someone a real nice crossbow scope to buy via those hacks at DealTime based from a Windows topiclink.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2014, 11:22:08 AM by Duce »
 

Offline Duce

  • Off to greener pastures
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Posts: 1699
    • Show all replies
    • http://amigabbs.blogspot.com/
Re: Surface 3 - New direction, higher prices and crappy i3
« Reply #28 on: June 07, 2014, 03:42:00 PM »
Don't tell the masses the truth, they hate that!  :)

Yes, you can turn Metro off entirely, people.  Easy peasy, a couple clicks.  I don't begrudge anyone disliking W8, but the witch hunt stuff is just hysterical.

YOU CAN OPT TO NEVER SEE "METRO" AT ALL AGAIN ONCE YOU DEFAULT TO DESKTOP MODE.  :)
 

Offline Duce

  • Off to greener pastures
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Posts: 1699
    • Show all replies
    • http://amigabbs.blogspot.com/
Re: Surface 3 - New direction, higher prices and crappy i3
« Reply #29 from previous page: June 08, 2014, 12:53:11 AM »
Believe what you like, John.  I'm telling you I use W8 daily and I don't hit Metro at all, and it didn't take rocket science to set that up.  I use Windows 8 in entirely "desktop" mode.

I'm not here to convert anyone.  In fact, I'd be the LAST guy on earth to recommend that anyone go out and upgrade from 7 to 8 on their own dime, especially if that person has zero need to anything "Metro" style.  What I am saying is 8.1 can be a perfectly usable desktop OS that's actually faster and as stable as Windows 7, that's all, and you don't need to see the Metro stuff if you don't want to.  or you can, or you can mix and match Metro and the Desktop.  Up to you.

However, if you buy a new PC with 8 installed, you can indeed run it in a desktop UI form and never see the tablet style UI.  You can, John, lol.  I do it every single day, as do many, many others.  This is not pulling rabbits out of hats, it's a simple config option in 8.1 u1.

http://images2.tinkertry.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Windows-8.1-running-Windows-8.1-VM-with-8TB-disk.png

Looks pretty much to be a standard Windows style desktop to me in that particular screenie, doesn't it?  There's no magic or smoke and mirrors needed to get an experience like that in the least.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2014, 12:58:01 AM by Duce »