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Offline Duce

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Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2012, 03:34:50 PM »
Trolling?  Pointing out facts isn't trolling, Dammy.  Poking holes in hazy (and hysterically funny) logic isn't trolling.

Libel?  Is not one thing I have said here that cannot be backed up by things directly uttered by C-USA here or elsewhere.  Anyone with 10 minutes of free time can do the legwork.  Complaints of machines running extremely hot and other issues were on their own forums, and yes - people did screenshot said posts before they were removed.  You are accusing me and others of slander, Dammy - and that's just not true, and it's not appreciated.

Didn't answer me, Dammy.  How's that C-USA machine of yours treating you?  A guy that fervently supports a company like you do, you know, you not being an employee or anything of the sort, surely bought one and can offer a glowing review of it?  I'm honestly curious how you are enjoying your purchase, Dammy - please share.
 

Offline Duce

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Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
« Reply #15 on: April 27, 2012, 11:07:38 PM »
Gotcha.

You are selling modern PC's branded as Amiga's.  We understand that, we all read Barry's Q & A.  We don't need the business school lecture on financial viability, C-USA has stated they will not be supporting the "purist" market at all.  What's left to discuss?  I thought all the fanboys would be off selling these to people that actually CARE.  In your eyes, you might as well be trying to sell glasses of water to drowning men.  

We get it.  We're the guys stuck in the past, the guys that "just don't understand" in your view.  Why you still here?  How much bad press does one company need?

Once again, we aren't interested.  If we wanted commodity PC's, we'd build our own or buy them from Dell or Best Buy.

I can buy the exact same case as the Amiga Mini for $50 tops any day of the week and assemble it with similar components for far less money if that is the footprint of PC that I want.  Not everyone is capable of that, and I recommend you preach to the proper choir, namely your target market.  We are not your target market.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2012, 11:12:10 PM by Duce »
 

Offline Duce

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Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
« Reply #16 on: April 27, 2012, 11:17:39 PM »
No one has proposed anything to Commodore USA.  The "Challenge to the Community" was from them, not us.  Barry answered a Q & A session on his own time.

A comparison to Tramiel isn't an endearing comparison in the least.

EDIT:  If you aren't selling them, what exactly do you want?  To change our minds?

This is Amiga.org.  We use Amiga computers.  You may find that outdated and old, but she's the facts, man.  My SAM 440 sits right beside my 4 ghz, 32 GB dual 590 GTX gaming rig.  I'm building up an A1200.  I'll be buying an FPGA Arcade.  That may shock you in this day and age, but there's a lot of people like me here, frittering around with old hardware.  It *is* Amiga.org, after all.

I'm not sure what your motive is for being here, seems all you have done is insult people and patronized them.  What part of "we aren't your target market" is not understandable?  What part of "maybe you guys should take business courses" makes any sense, when people are here to enjoy CLASSIC and NG Amiga systems - not Linux PC's?
« Last Edit: April 27, 2012, 11:23:29 PM by Duce »
 

Offline Duce

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Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2012, 01:48:44 AM »
Let me get this:

New guy comes in, tells us all we're a bunch of dottering old farts wasting our time on our old computer hobbies.  x86 is the FUTURE!  CHANGE NOW OR DIE!
We've heard that for nearly 20 years, Skip.  It's old hat.

Banters back and forth, insulting people telling them they need business training to "understand".  We don't need business training to have fun with a hobby, Champ.  Claims no affiliation with C-USA in every post - not that anyone asked.

Things come full circle, he's now an enterprising up and coming dude wanting to work with C-USA and the retro scene and provide us what we want, after he for the better part of the day called you all *******ed idiots (or worse).  He's now all ears on how to make our lives better, and suddenly a big wig in the world.  Still with no C-USA affiliation.

This place is getting worse by the minute.  Very little is anything Amiga related, and mods seem completely driven by pageviews or something.

Enjoy your CommodoreUSA-Amiga.org ****box, boys.
 

Offline Duce

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Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
« Reply #18 on: April 28, 2012, 02:10:57 AM »
They are a Linux PC vendor selling x86 boxes.  This is Amiga.org.

Jesus Christ why can't people understand this just isn't relevant here?
 

Offline Duce

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Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
« Reply #19 on: April 28, 2012, 03:25:17 AM »
Thing I find so passively odd is the fact the old regulars of A.org are just sitting back, reading this completely unrelated talking head BS from C-USA (nothing related to the Amiga in the least other than a licensing agreement) and not saying a word, while the site is losing any Amiga content in favor of this troll crap that's got nothing to do with the platform we love.

These people are guys that could be giving advice to some kid having problems with a floppy drive on an A500 he dragged out from a boot sale.  These are guys that could be giving coding tips to some guy fighting with his first coding project.  These dudes are guys that could be helping some guy that's got a bad display on an old A2000 he put away 15 years ago, but I fear (and in some cases I outright know) people are avoiding the place like the plague due to the propaganda machine.

Instead, I get the feeling the regulars see threads like all this BS spam and just say "screw it, this place isn't worth it" and go elsewhere.  They see the front page and "news" posts, and it's mostly garbage having nothing to do with the Amiga.  Linux x86 machines that do not even come with an emulator have NOTHING to do with the Amiga - nothing.  The fact that the people spamming it are grossly abusive is 10x worse yet, but man - I get a chuckle out of seeing guys like Franko get banned for having a weird sense of humor while this clown show still goes on...

Am I proposing censorship?  Never.  Am I suggesting that the place shouldn't be a dumping zone for people with personal agendas, trying to make us "see the light"?  I sure am.  There is a balance, and right now it's horribly out of whack.  Amiga.org ain't much of an Amiga site lately.

Right now, some kid is digging an old Amiga out of a relatives closet, having no clue how the thing works, but he's damned curious about it, and he'll need community help to get it going.  Right now, someone is having a cold beer, reflecting fondly about a computer they used 20 years ago, and he's looking around on the web, checking out AROS, MOS, OS4 and the FPGA solutions.

All will eventually stumble upon A.org - I hope.  Unfortunately, all the "hot button" topics here are essentially free press of a commodity PC vendor selling Linux PC's.

That is a shame.

Wildstar, if you are trying to gauge "success" in sales in a niche market, a market that has been thriving for 20 years off grassroots businesses and inventive people.  The Jens S's, the AmigaKit/Vesalia/etc guys, the FPGA guys, the MOS guys, the AROS guys, etc.

NONE will ever get rich off selling what they sell to us.  It is a hobby market.  They know this.  I know this.  Everyone knows this.  It's not about "progress" and "the buck", it's about having a hobby you enjoy.  If you quantify "success" with millions of dollars in sales a year in a hobby community, you are a fool.

We come to Amiga.org to spend time with like minded people that enjoy their hobby - whether it be legacy, PPC, AROS.  Everyone has their own definition of what the Amiga is, and far be it from me to force my opinions of that on anyone, and I use all the Amiga platforms anyways.

No one comes to A.org to get spammed by zealots pushing Linux powered x86 product on them in an insulting fashion.  No one.  No one is here to listen to people drone on incessantly that the x86 platform won 20 years ago.  We knew that 20 years ago.

We are here to lend support and good conversation to other people using Amiga variants, and other than a licensing agreement and a sticker/etching, there's nothing Amiga about the C-USA Amiga platform.  Not a thing, not even an emulator.  If you want to make it into some issue that people here have some sort of witch hunt towards C-USA, go nuts.  The day they put out anything Amiga related that goes past case badging is the day they have relevance to the community here.

Their offerings simply have zero relevance at all at this time here, in my books.

People are leaving due to the lack of topical content here, I guess if people want to watch it happen to A.org, there's other Amiga friendly portals on the web that don't pander to entirely unrelated products/companies.  Page views won't keep this ship afloat in the long run (A.org).

Wildstar, not sure what your deal is.  One minute you seem perfectly capable of having a civil discussion, the next minute it's personal insults like:

 "I am not under his control. So please stop spreading such false accusations. That is the problem with you guys. Either you never completed 3rd grade or you guys have some serioius psychological issues. Did you dose too much drugs, lsd, etc. During the 80s and that is why you are so screwed up."

It's reprehensible and childish - either be productive or don't post, before even more people leave this place due to this tripe.  Your perceived freedom of speech here doesn't give you the right to make personal insults and grade school slurs.
 

Offline Duce

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Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
« Reply #20 on: April 28, 2012, 03:30:24 AM »
The community is more than used to paying higher prices for niche hardware - I'm not sure where you get the impression peoples' main driving factor is money.

People gladly paid good money for the PPC OS4 boards.  They were not cheap.
People gladly still register MorphOS, despite the fact it is similarly priced to an OEM copy of Windows.

People still gladly pay thru the nose for legacy Amiga systems, for accels and gfx cards for said systems.  Things like the Indivision and the USB addons for classic Amiga systems are in high, high demand and they are grossly overpriced if one was to foolishly compare them to commodity PC counterparts.

A hobby is never cheap, whether it be computing or classic cars - money is rarely a deciding factor.  Enjoyment is.
 

Offline Duce

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Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
« Reply #21 on: April 28, 2012, 04:02:03 AM »
Last we heard the Amiga Mini does not come with Amiga Forever or another similar, legal, all in one, installed by default emulator with ROM's and images.

By that I mean one that includes ROM's and KS/disk images.

Please correct me if I am wrong - just a couple days ago Leo was claiming they were still debating licensing AF, but said atm it was not included.

I am referring to the C-USA Amiga line only, this being A.org and all I don't really care a hell of a lot about the C64 offerings C-USA have.
 

Offline Duce

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Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
« Reply #22 on: April 28, 2012, 04:34:47 AM »
There are plenty of people developing HW and SW for legacy and NG Amiga systems without starving to death IRL.  Most people refer to it as a "labor of love".  Just because people only see things as being "viable" in terms of dollars and cents, doesn't mean a guy can't eek out an existence selling niche market items in a niche market.

You are equating million dollar profits to "success" in a hobby market, and that just isn't what it's all about.

If it were a loss leader there would be no AmigaKit, no X1000, so on and so forth.  No one does this out of charity.

Thanks for the reply on the emulator issue - as Leo said, there's no working, out of the box emulator included with the proper ROM's and disk images.  UAE doesn't do a whole hell of a lot without them.

I certainly hope the cusaforums.com redirect is a gag.  Makes me nervous to think the place may have sold out and people I would not want to have any of my personal info may have it.
 

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Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
« Reply #23 on: April 28, 2012, 04:39:46 AM »
Thanks for the clarification, Pyro.

The domain redirect is obviously concerning, was all.
 

Offline Duce

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Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
« Reply #24 on: April 28, 2012, 05:02:38 AM »
I am thinking, lol.

There's plenty of business people, from guys making parts for cars that haven't been made for 80 years, to guys making components for Amiga's that will never get rich, yet they still keep doing it.  If you see what they are doing as a failure because they aren't making millions per year supporting a hobby they love, knock yourself out and call them failures.  I won't, and either will 99% of the people here.  Instead we're thankful there are people around still slugging away to bring stuff to market.  For nearly 20 years these grassroots guys, combined with people selling and trading older hardware have been the lifeblood of the Amiga community.  Those guys that are getting their hands dirty and burned up with soldering irons are the ones to respect, and people around here show said respect to them in spades.

For them it's simply not about venture capital and owning nice cars.  Perhaps many don't even break even.  Perhaps many still work crappy day jobs to fund their passions of bringing new products to market for things that the rest of the world forgot about a long time ago.

It's not all about money, and the fact there's still new products coming out for the Amiga's that were made 20 years ago shows this - things like the ZorRam, Indivision cards, the ACA accels, the FPGA Arcade/Minimig, etc.
 

Offline Duce

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Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
« Reply #25 on: April 28, 2012, 09:53:56 PM »
Enough of the personal insults.  Just enough.  If you want to view a differing viewpoint, do it in a civil fashion.  You aren't going to "convert the heathens" here.  The "Heathens" are quite happy with their little retro hobby, cold pizza and Jolt.

It's beyond me why a mod hasn't banned your account for the personal insults/abuse factors.

Laughable really.  At least when Franko was going off the rails and being abusive, he was factual and funny.  You are just being an abusive bore.
 

Offline Duce

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Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
« Reply #26 on: April 29, 2012, 01:58:46 AM »
You don't understand why we participate in this hobby, I'm not about to waste my time with trying to explain the "hobby" aspect again and why money isn't a factor.  Just like it isn't to some guy that loves model steam locomotives, you can tell him his "tech" is old school, and chide him for spending a dime on it.  That does not detract from the fact he DOES spend money on it, and DOES enjoy it, and SOMEONE is on the business end of it providing services or goods to allow said enthusiast to keep at his hobby.

I'll ask again:  why are you still here?  I fail to see that you've done anything for many pages now other than sling personal insults towards the community, and quite frankly the mods are dropping the ball in a horrible fashion.  How are you helping the community, and A.org?

Kudos to the Jewish reference - nice to know you are a stereotyping racist, too.  Not sure why the constant Tramiel/Altman comparisons are going on - Tramiel did business practices that were bordering on illegal.  You are not only an abusive bore, but now a racist.  Wow.  Didn't think it'd get worse, but here we are.

RIP Tramiel, but I'll call that one like history has it down, and a wise man would have done his homework on Jack's little "takeover" history.
 

Offline Duce

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Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
« Reply #27 on: April 29, 2012, 03:18:42 AM »
I don't expect hobby businesses to attract big money lenders, lol.  See, that's the point.  Your lecture on how we're all pissing time and money down the drain, and how guys like MikeJ, Jens, and etc. are not "legitimate businessmen" is hot air.  You just don't get it, it's not about cash, so please quit talking down to us in the vein of "financial viability".

Maybe all of these Amiga hobby business dudes work day jobs still - matters little to me.  When my FPGA arcade board arrives, I'll thank Mike and crew for all the ass busting they did on it.  I'll pay the price, which by outside standards I likely could buy a good commodity PC for that price.  And I'll be happy with it.  It will take me back to when I was 16, I'll enjoy it for what it is.  I'll be BLOODY happy I was able to support a crew of people that are likely only breaking even on what they are selling.  A labor of love, guys getting their hands dirty and burned up by soldering irons.  The grunts.  The guys doing things for fun rather than money.

In a world of everything being a commodity, getting true enjoyment out of a hobby is one of the only honest pursuits one can have.  It's a get away.  A throw back to the past.  Fun.

I've got a lot of hobbies.  The least of which is the Amiga.  I also make repro and custom parts for vintage motorscooters and tattoo machines, in addition to a day job.  I like doing it, and mostly only benefits my immediate friends.  It's fun.  I know I will not get rich at it, and I am lucky if I break even when all is said and done.  I will keep doing this, and not for the green.  It has virtually no impact on my RL income, it's something I'd be doing anyways for my own enjoyment.  A hobby, no financial aspects.  Hobby.

All the "financial viability" talks on how people catering to the legacy/niche real Amiga market are wasting their time is nonsense, because it's not about that.  The Amiga, the original breed - has been dead for almost 20 years, yet people still keep buying accelerators, network cards, USB and IDE interfaces - all forms of new hardware that comes out.  New software for these "dead and buried platforms" comes out on a weekly basis, and no one has the slightest delusion the Amiga will rise from the dead and crush the commodity PC market.  Hobby.  A good word to remember.

Personally, I'm just thankful there's so many options in this community.  There's so much room for people to fiddle around with their preferred version of what they view as "an Amiga".  Plenty of aftermarket hardware for legacy systems.  A handful of FPGA solutions.  OS4 and PPC boards.  MOS and cheap Mac's.  AROS and x86 hardware.  Various emulators like AF, AmiKit, Amithlon, UAE.  Take your pick - no one retailing or otherwise promoting any of the above items will be the next Jobs or Gates, and I am sure they are just fine with that.
 

Offline Duce

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Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
« Reply #28 on: April 29, 2012, 04:37:10 AM »
I am fully aware as to the business (LLC) status of Commodore USA.  Having run businesses of my own, I'm well aware of the perks (and drawbacks) of an LLC.  If I gave the impression I was thumbing my nose at LLC status, or otherwise implying C-USA is "not a business", that was not intended.  I don't believe I implied otherwise.  They have every right to conduct business as they wish, and unlike many here - I have zero interests or stake in some ideal that they are "defiling the Amiga name".

No one, including me - expects them to see the community as a charity case.

That being said, don't ask the community to see them as anything other that a commodity PC vendor selling Linux boxes.  Barry's own interview confirmed as much.

I wish C-USA no ill will.  I do not dislike Barry, Leo, Dammy, etc. - or anyone else in the extended community.  I assure you if I was waiting with baited breath hoping they fail, I'd let you know.

In fact I hope they make a rock solid PC that people buy and enjoy for many years to come.  That being said, it is becoming tiring on A.org and other well established Amiga forums portals how a commodity PC vendor is going to "save us all", when they themselves have so much as stated they are selling commodity boxes under a nostalgic name.

Just as I would be if Dell showed up here spamming adverts and press for their Intel machines.  Best of luck, but how it pertains to any of us is beyond me.  People would like to see some actual Amiga content on A.org rather than bickering about a PC vendor.

No one is "demanding" a single thing from C-USA.  In fact, their challenge to the community was largely ignored and laughed off due to the terms of it.  They brought that to us.  No one was willing to pony up a single dime to a commodity PC vendor that for 2 years has done nothing but be extremely abusive towards them, and you can't blame them in the least for that.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2012, 04:39:38 AM by Duce »
 

Offline Duce

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Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
« Reply #29 from previous page: April 29, 2012, 06:50:34 PM »
Wow, wasn't aware that you went thru all that BS, Darrin.

Guess I should count myself lucky that I only had a few of their fanboys harassing me.