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Offline Kremlar

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Re: FPGA Amiga
« on: January 04, 2018, 12:59:43 AM »
Quote from: johnklos;834555
In my opinion, the biggest problem is that different FPGA developers are working towards different goals.

Actually, I think that's a strength.  If you had 4 projects all with the same goal they'd be competing for the same space - which is not good in such a small market.

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Some people want new FPGA-based Amigas to have new features that make those devices stand out. They want a new generation of software that can't run on older systems. They, it seems, haven't learned much from the PowerUp versus WarpOS, MorphOS, AROS, et cetera, compatibility issues.

I disagree.  Although I see advantages to both sides, I definitely see the attraction of a product like the Vampire.  High performance speeds up legacy apps (not so with PowerPC), while the new features tease developers to create enhanced 68K software that can take advantage - which is already happening.

Compatibility issues are overstated.  Is there some software that does not run?  Sure.  But is it any worse than when the Amiga 1200/3000/4000s were released with new chipsets, processors and kickstarts?  No, and I'd say compatibility is actually better and getting better all the time.

Now, I understand concern for those that hate the Vampire for some reason and are afraid of being left in the dust.  But Vampire users enjoy very good compatibility and I suspect it will only get better.

Really, did people complain when 030/040 accelerators or new Amigas were introduced into the market?  The same arguments can be made - "we are fracturing our userbase!"

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Others want new accelerators and/or new computers based on FPGAs which can run existing software (the reason most of us have Amigas) with modern components and with much greater speed. Extra features are nice, but I don't think there are that many of us who are clamoring for features in new software which make that software not backwards compatible.

I think there are many people looking for extra features.  Look at how many Vampires have been sold and there is still a backlog!  The Vampire community seems bigger and more active than the NG community, and it has only been a couple years.  Wait until the 1200 and standalone versions are released!

But I understand your point that some users want hardcore compatibility and no new/little new features.  For those people there are already standard accelerators, though not 060s for a reasonable price.  Perhaps the FPGA Arcade will be the product to fit that niche (for those wanting a standalone device).  If a market really exists for a basic FPGA accelerator with max compatibility and no/few added features then someone will create one.  Perhaps Jens?

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Personally, I'd like an FPGA m68k core that looks like an m68040 with an m68040 MMU that has a superset of all m68k instructions, particularly 64 bit instructions that are on the '040 but not '060, and all the FPU instructions that are on the m68881 and '882 but not on the '040 FPU. I'd like everything to Just Work%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!8482; without wondering. Something like this could work on Macs, Ataris, and NeXTs, too, if it was made to fit in an '040 socket.

Interesting idea, but is it possible with so much software out there that bangs the hardware?  If C= and Motorola could not do it with relatively humongous pockets, can someone today?  And then you add in other platforms and want 99.99% compatibility with all software?  Seems like a lofty goal, but if a hardware developer shares the same want as you it would be an interesting project!

I think what a lot of people fail to understand is that this market is driven by developer wants, not money.  No one is getting rich off of these products, so a developer needs to have a strong desire to create something or there is no reason to.  And when it's no longer fun or interesting development stops.

I hope that does not happen to the Apollo/Vampire team because they are truly creating what I think is an interesting evolution of the 68K Amigas, which is what attracts me and I think most Amiga users to their product.  PowerPC is pretty boring to most Amiga users I'd say.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2018, 01:06:19 AM by Kremlar »
 

Offline Kremlar

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Re: FPGA Amiga
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2018, 06:32:14 PM »
Quote from: psxphill;834702

I personally like the ultimate 64, mega 65 & spectrum next more. Those dev boards are ok, but there is something about having a computer in a case with a keyboard.


Right!  I have expressed interest for the Ultimate-64 and hopefully I'll be in the 1st batch.  Can't wait for the Mega65 either!
 

Offline Kremlar

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Re: FPGA Amiga
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2018, 12:43:15 AM »
Quote from: psxphill;834713
Pre-orders are closed for ultimate 64 now, ultimate64.com


Right.  I requested to be on the pre-order list early on.  We'll see.
 

Offline Kremlar

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Re: FPGA Amiga
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2018, 12:38:49 PM »
Quote from: psxphill;834722
Gideon hasn't always paid much attention to that, I managed to get a 1541u2 when they first came out and I was on the bottom of the list and others higher up the list missed out. I noticed the web site was down for maintenance and by the next day then not only had it moved but there was news that a small batch of boards were being shipped next month and the pre-order list was full.

It might be that these aren't what you'd consider the first batch. Gideon however is referring to the rest of the first 500 boards as being the second batch & I think it's more likely that you'll be getting one of those.


lol, ok
 

Offline Kremlar

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Re: FPGA Amiga
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2018, 10:15:26 PM »
I understand there are a lot of personal feelings going around here.  That seems common in the Amiga community, and especially when hot heads collide where everyone has their own idea of how Amiga should move forward.

This is a typical chicken and egg syndrome.  However, in this case I think they are clearly making the right choice.  If they focused on developer-centric features first, users would be less interested in purchasing and developers would say "why should I develop for this when there are no users?"

In this case there are clear benefits to buying a Vampire WITHOUT many developers getting involved.  Yes, if you have an 060 setup and are happy with it this may not be the product for you - but you are in the clear minority.  Vampire offers a clear benefit for anyone without an 060 looking for a CPU upgrade, along with RTG and many other features.  Just with existing software.  Would new software be nice?  Yes, and software is trickling in.
 But they are selling tons so why switch priorities now?

Once they finish adding all the consumer-centric features they'd like I assume they'll switch to developer-centric features.  By then developers will have a nice target audience to develop for.

And I'm sure this product is not of interest to the demo scene.  They are most interested in retro hardware, and this makes the Amiga less retro.

They are a small team and can't do everything at once!
 

Offline Kremlar

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Re: FPGA Amiga
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2018, 11:26:26 AM »
Quote from: psxphill;834850

IMO they would avoid it because it's too expensive and a bit like joining a cult.


When has ANYTHING Amiga NOT been like joining a cult???  Lol :roflmao:
 

Offline Kremlar

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Re: FPGA Amiga
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2018, 04:25:18 PM »
Quote from: adonay;835209
I agree a 100%

I have never been in any online community that has more idiots\trolls  than the Amiga community.
Question is why would anyone develop anything for such a useless group of nagging 5 year olds ? I have never seen any new product that has not been slaughtered verbally by someone for lacking this or that here.

Funny thing is that it is always like this . End-user demand allot and never contributes with anything.  

There are allot of "smart" people here and if they don't like something i think its about high time they start producing something better them self. Rather than constantly talking %&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@! about things they are not part of developing .  

Attacking the vampire core is idiotic as it is not a done deal yet , same goes for lack of SDK or whatever, it may eventually be done . I find the vampire core interesting and its constant development means nothing but good news for the end user. If it does not have what you need now why buy it ?


Exactly!