More Chipram

[KThunder]

yeah the os allocating some stuff in upper chip ram would muck stuff upp. at best it would be like slow ram or something. not completely usable, fast ram is better

[KThunder]

actually it doesnt. you can use mmu to remap rom to fast ram but alot of this stuff goes into chip

[KThunder]

Piru wrote:
@KThunder

wait... screens i see what you mean, im thinking in terms of programs but the os could put screens up there couldnt it

No it couldn't. Or at least it would be no different from fast memory. You'd still need to swap the memory in & out, which is really painfully slow with chip memory. And OS doesn't do this anyway, it assumes MEMF_CHIP is displayable.

in winuae if you have 8megs chip and you start up a crapload of programs screens ight get put up above 2meg right? that would cause problems right if you flipped screens or doesnt it work that way?

[KThunder]

so you guys have nothing in chip ram huh, nothing at all not a single byte used?
what is this thread here for then if noone uses chip ram

[KThunder]

Piru wrote:
@KThunder

in winuae if you have 8megs chip and you start up a crapload of programs screens ight get put up above 2meg right?

Naturally.

that would cause problems right if you flipped screens or doesnt it work that way?

There is no problem in WinUAE, it handles 8MB just fine. It has chipset that is able to handle >2MB chip memory without any issues. I was commenting your idea.

i was agreeing with you some stuff might get put in upper chip that the custom chips might need and that would cause problems. since my idea wouldnt fix the problem it would only partially bypass it.

[KThunder]

unless....

just kidding, i have never runinto any memory problems on my miggy, i did back with my 1000, but that was with 1meg of fast and 512 chip

[KThunder]

Piru wrote:
Well, I don't see how this "chip memory" would be any different from having the extra areas available as fast memory. You could aswell just use FBlit, and/or MCP's patch to direct chipmem allocations to fastmem.

piru im agreeing with you, discusion over it wont work
i was  interested in why it wouldnt, the main thing i didnt think of was screens. it clicked when karlos said something about bitplane data. with my video card none of that goes in chip so i didnt think of it.

[KThunder]

wait hang on a sec...
here you go:
 :bow:  :bow:  :bow:
and one of these:  :cheers:
and maybe one of these for good measure: :whack:

[KThunder]

yeah sleep is good, i work the night shift.
later

[KThunder]

Thomas wrote:

I find it funny how people try to create the theory of "chip memory that cannot be accessed by the custom chips".

you are missing the point of what leirbag wanted. if you are trying to load a whole bunch of programs that are all asking for chip ram you dont care if the custom chips use it. only that the cpu does. dont make fun of somebody if you are missing the entire point of the arguement.
some people still run programs that want chip ram, we all know that fast is better and most new programs dont need much chip, about the only program that i use that does is dpaintIV, if i wanted that running with several other programs that needed chip id be out of luck and would have to unload dpaint for another prog or whatever.

[KThunder]

"entertaining" as if we are stupid or something, thats increadibly arrogent of you.
the one program that i use that makes lots of use of chip ram is dpaint IV. it was written after fast ram began to be used extensively. according to the manual 140k or something like that is used by the program even if you have fast. the manual also states that with certain fuctions in some screen modes you might run out even if you have 2megs chip. dpaintIV uses as mich fast ram as possible and still uses some chip. even dpaint 2 loaded as much into fast as possible (acording to dan silva the guy who wrote it) and the rest into chip.
now if i had 8megs chip in dpaint IV i could say open a hires overscanned screen with stensils and animation controles etc etc with no trouble,
if i had 2megs chip and some "chip" all the stuff the custom chips need: screens stensil etc could concevably fit in the 2megs with the program that is requesting chip ram going into "chip" and still working. dpaint is modular so if you use a function like 3d rotations and stuff it loads that into ram. if it needs chip it could possibly use "chip"
we have agreed that it is not possible and the reasons for it and i was wrong on part of that, if you want to come in and make people seem stupid thats your perogitive but i think its pretty low class of you
i havent done much programming for amiga and id like to do more. i dont know why a program would need code in chip ram. piru does or knows why it doesnt he seems to know quite a bit about this thats why im asking him. you i dont need

[KThunder]

again you miss my freaking point: i do understand i have agreed with the others. and you completely missed what i was saying with dpaint too.
if a program is loading code into chip as well as stuff that does need to be displayed and there was a way to get the code into something other than chip there would be more room for stuff that needs to be in chip.
you are arrogant and dont  want to understand

i was going to ask piru and karlos if there was a way to use the mmu to remap code that wants to use chip to fast but you would probably jump all over that too.

[KThunder]

ok here are the actual number i got from the dpaint manual:

dpaintII with no fast uses 200k for the program and with fast can free up 170k so leaving 30k in chip. this is code of some type not including screen. 320x200x32 uses 40k. i checked this all and its pretty close, so not bad even for an old program.

dpaintIV uses 282k for the bare program. i couldnt find what fast frees up in the manual anywhere.
i ran it bare on my 3000 and checking ram came out with 99.8k used minus 40k for 320x200x32 screen leaves about 60k left in chip of code.

so in otherwords this is a huge problem!!!!   :-D
it is 60k for the bare prog. i assume that that has to be there. the dpaintII manual says that it loads as much as it can into fast leaving about 30.
that 60k would only be a problem if i had all animation stuff on and something running in the background. i usually run dpaint alone though.

[KThunder]

i checked ppaint also and it uses some chip beyond the amount used for screen. i tried it with a bunch of different screen resolutions and program settings but i couldnt find out how much it uses. i dont know if you can turn workbench off with ppaint. it seems to use about as much as dpaintIV. rtg uses a bit at least with my video cards.

[KThunder]

regardless of what goes were etc. i think weve kilt this one dead. i tried to figure the ram usage best as i could with lots of different program settings and screen settings but you are right its tough to nail down.


 :horse:
thanks for your help quys i think im done with this thread hope i didnt piss anybody off too much i do respect you guys and you knowledge of the hardware.

except thomas, i hope i pissed him off real good  :-D

kidding

[KThunder]

i said i was done with this thread but ill make one more post since yours was directed at me.

i dont have a problem with chip ram, i never have. i run dpaint for its animation features. i use ppaint, and xipaint for paint stuff since they work well with my video card.