Theo de Raadt says Pegasos Bad

[JKD]

Well, I guess to those of with experience of the Pegasos platform this looks like nothing but pure flamebait...so lets just review:

1. Pegasos 1 had (and still has) some serious problems...there is a lot of information in the public domain about this and it's no secret about the painful Artica S, April I, April II evolution...The Peg I could not be made to work reliably with a G4.

2. 600MHz with a 100/133MHz FSB is slow compared with latest PCs - no arguement with that,  but it does depend on application. People use old Pentium 200 Mhz boxes for firewalls, mail servers etc. running linux and it's certainly way more capable than that.

3. Only a few G4 machines in USA...well pardon me if I don;t fall over in surprise. Again, there is plenty of public domain information stated by the head honchos that they are struggling in the transition from bleeding money into the platform into making it a profitable entity. Sales aren't what anyone expected (same applies to A1 for example)...but I do see progress, getting assosciated with IBM, visibility in Motorola for example. It's also publically stated that production is occurring in small batches (low 100s) for this very reason. A G4 Pegasos II costs $600 to $700..this is no small investment (but see point 5)

4. Open firmware could be bugged for all I know - I'm not qualified to know. I've seen other people discussing issues regarding device tree, CPU enumeration. I assume they will be fixed in time.

5. Cost - it's very competetive for a PPC platform. I don't think he has a point here unless you want to open the old chestnut of comparing Apples with Oranges i.e. PPC vs x86

6. Genesi as a working business entity - again there's plenty of public domain knowledge regarding their financial situation and we all know it's not good - even top management posted this information! (pretty unusual IMO)
As to their business practice _ I really don't have any inside information or knowledge. If Theo does then I might consider myself forewarned, however:

7. The tone of the post is pure flamery...irrespective of how competent the person is (and I surely don't know him from Adam) This just reduces the impact of the statement.

So it looks like some of his points are way of base and on a few there is still work to be done...

Sound fair?

Steve

[JKD]

Sounded like it just didn't work out for his projects and there were communication issues.

He even knew the whol project (Pegasos BSD) was at very early beta stage.

Those are the facts.

Do I need to list the reams of hardware on the PC platform that may or may not be supported on various kernels?
 
If Genesi had the opportunity to get Gig ethernet working and missed it due to not paying attention to their email then it's a shame - developer realtions are key.

If, however, the mails merely bounced then not sure what to make of it. I have had one bounce from genesi.lu and none from pegasos-usa.com in over a year.

[JKD]

I take exception to your first paragraph. I (personally) absolutely *do* realize this and I'm sure your generaliztion sucks for other too.

With regards to your second paragraph....unfortunately that's the reality of a  non-mainstream platform. If peoples expectations are higher than that nothing either of us can say or do is going to close that gap.

It's a *personal* choice to go against the flow...this applies even one of the biggest 'marginal' markets - Mac OS. Marginalization issues abound even there.

Lets not forget that Windows didn't even become good until Win2k (or NT4 if you were brave enough...) The amount of crap the user had to put up with on version prior to that was comparable IMO.

B-, must try harder! :-D

Steve

[JKD]

Likewise here (waiting for a Peg II G4) and also sold my most beloved Amiga to get this opportunity...a machine I probably sunk over $5k into over the years.... j'ai regret rien..or something along those lines.

As far as other operating systems go.. I never tried BSD but I certainly will get round to installing and using linux this time (never did on my Peg I). I will be showing it off and demoing it to anyone who's interested (and a few who probably aren't :-D)

Linux and other OS'es present a more viable entry point to the Pegasos than MorphOS from a familiarity perspective of course.

Back on topoc = I thought BSD was integral to the ShopIP Guardian product...so this guy could be important, at least to that effort?

Steve

[JKD]

"So why has so many people on this posting gone out of their way to drag Mai and AI into this when they have NOTHING at all to do with this."

I think people (myself included) were trying to speculate on the cause for dis-satisfaction as no-one could reconcile the functionality opinion with their experience.

"So my suggestion is talk about how great your platform is.
leave the mud slinging to the Politicians."

Well, as the thread started with flamebait of almost troll like proportions why are you surprised?

"It is not needed or appreciated by anyone. "

Actually....you are dead wrong on this unfortunately, there's a vocal quantity of people who find it both necessary and fun  :-(

Every single person on here has an agenda, some are out there up front, some aren't ... some are more sinister than others...lets not forget this plus the old classic 'opinions are like arseholes...'

Have a better day,

Steve

[JKD]

You're smarter than I am then 'coz I spent the last three days being wound up by this. :-(

Good on ya!

Steve

[JKD]

I didn't see that so much as a rebuttal...more of a balancing up the other side of the story. Paul's account seemed fairly complete and open, actually the same as bbrv's has been - the acidic nature of the discussions so far is really related to the vitriol in Theo's post.

1. Read both sides of the story
2. Read between the lines
3. Repeat 1 and 2 again (ad nauseum)
4. ....
5. Conclusion

There's 3 sides to every story...

Steve  :-D

[JKD]

Floid wrote:

JKD wrote:
I didn't see that so much as a rebuttal...more of a balancing up the other side of the story.

Look up 'rebuttal' in a dictionary? :-)

Yeah...you're right, not quite sure what word I was thinking of...probably one that doesn't exist! ;-)

Largely as a result of getting wound up by reading garbage posts in forums...keep telling myself it doesn't matter and keep taking the pills  :-D

Steve