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Author Topic: Video editing - some advice please!!  (Read 9621 times)

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Offline Pyromania

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Re: Video editing - some advice please!!
« on: February 27, 2003, 04:08:50 AM »
Pick up a used Amiga 4000 or 4000T with a Video Toaster 4000 card and a Flyer card. You will be in Amiga video editing heaven.
 

Offline Pyromania

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Re: Video editing - some advice please!!
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2003, 07:47:30 AM »
Hi mips_proc:

 I think your being a little hard on Jule. Jule was only trying to recommend an Amiga solution because if you read the original post from Unit21 he said he was looking for an Amiga based video production solution because he did not like Windows. I like you also own a Video Toaster [2], great system but I would not get ride of my Flyer system because I have it. I enjoy both systems and they work well together. In fact ask Newtek about the flaws in Toaster [2]'s CG. For now the CG on the Amiga Video Toaster Flyer is more functional and usable per Newtek’s Video Toaster [2] product manager, ask him yourself. And for you to recommend Adobe Premier to someone that was looking for an Amiga video solution is quite laughable. Premiere is a joke program that is given away free with most video capture cards. The Flyer does so much more than this limited unintuitive video editing software (Premiere). Try doing a mixture of a live action sequence with a animated CG character in Premiere and get back with me on what your results were. The Flyer has no problem doing this.  As far as the Video Toaster [2] goes it is of course fantastic and I like you love mine. Many can’t afford it though and if they love Amiga OS like Unit21 does there is nothing wrong with them starting out with an Amiga based Video Toaster Flyer solution. If he starts his video production business and does well with it then he could get a T[2] later on. Sure I would not recommend a Flyer if the user were looking for a system to do heavy Lightwave 3D work but he is looking to do editing. The Flyer is a wonderful editing environment. That is one of the reasons that my company still supports the Flyer as well as the VT[2]. In fact we have a product coming out that allows you to use a T[2] card in a PCI based Amiga. As far as not needing a switcher? Most people that do any type of quality editing need to switch between video sources. The valid points you made is if someone buys a used Amiga system they better be an Amiga techie or be friends with a local dealer or user group in case they have Amiga questions or there system ever needs repaired. As far as the Video Toaster & Flyer cards goes, Newtek fixes these for free so your ass is covered.  If the Amiga based Video Toaster Flyer had not been such a great product you and I would not be enjoying our Video Toaster [2]’s right now because Newtek would no longer exist. Sorry for the long post but recommending Premiere over the Flyer had me rolling on the floor laughing. Use the Flyer for a few minutes and you will see what I mean.

Best regards

Bill Panagouleas
DiscreetFX
Founder/CEO
bill@discreetfx.com
www.discreetfx.com


 

Offline Pyromania

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Re: Video editing - some advice please!!
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2003, 10:00:48 AM »
Oh boy here we go. I know Premiere is only for Windows and not Amiga OS, that does not make it any less crap. I would not recommend Premiere to anyone even a home user. The crap interface and the render everything attitude of this package has turned off many budding new video editors. Premiere is not fine for the beginner or anyone for that matter, it is crap period. By recommending it to anyone you are just giving him or her a world of frustration. Since you brought up Vegas Video I tried that out and found it's word processor interface to some it up in one word "Lacking". Also the learning curve is too long and it lacks needed features. It has plenty of useless buzzword features though.  The problem with many software solutions on  Windows is the programmers of these packages don't have a clue about the broadcast video editing/TV industry. Real editors don’t want their video editing software packages to look like word processors with lots of pull down menus and stupid geek terms. They want their video editing hardware/software to look like what it replaces video editing hardware. Switchers, Digital Disk Recorders, Proc Amps, Vectorscopes Etc. That is what has always been so nice about Newtek. Boot up a Video Toaster [2] and bide goodbye to the Windows interface. T[2] looks and acts like what it replaces, editing equipment.

 The Flyer also has a wonderful real-time easy to use interface and you don’t to render your video project or effects. In fact this is what hurts many of the DV only solutions, you have to render out to DV tape. A very long process I might add. Also I never said you had to buy decks. MiniDV works fine with the Flyer in fact you get to hook it direct, no TBC required. Can you hookup via Firewire? No but a live feed recorded to the Flyer will look better than the compression DV tape offers anyway.  By the way my company does not sell computers or computer equipment. We are a developer and sell only the hardware/software that we develop. I do see complete Video Toaster Flyer systems sell on ebay all the time though for about $1100, a great value for sure. Normally I don’t get involved in on-line debates but Jule was getting pummeled for no reason. Am I trying to say that the PC is not suited for video/editing? Of course not, there are many great packages like Combustion, DFX+ and VT[2] of course but these solutions will cost you and the original poster was asking for Amiga solutions. The SGI also has some killer solutions for video/editing/effects like Flint, Flame and Smoke but you will need about $200,000 to start. As far as needing a switcher, even shooting a simple thing like a graduation requires several cameras to do it right. Your going to save yourself lots of time in post if you take advantage of a real-time switcher.  As you pointed out if you find a used Amiga Toaster system at a price close to a new or used Video Toaster [2] system then of course go for the T[2], only a fool would not go for it if the price is about the same. With the announced T[3] software upgrade coming out this system will continue to go from strength to strength. As far as Ami[2] goes (our product that lets you put a T[2] in your Amiga). It only takes advantage of a few of the features of T[2] so does not need a 2Ghz processor. Depending on how well the product is received and how it sells will determine what features we add over time. I think the On-Topic thing to do since this is amiga.org and the original poster asked for Amiga video editing solutions since they hate Windows is to recommend Amiga solutions with the understanding that it is a used system. There is no reason to be Adobe pimp daddys in an Amiga only forum.

Best regards

Bill Panagouleas
DiscreetFX
Founder/CEO
bill@discreetfx.com
www.discreetfx.com
 

Offline Pyromania

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Re: Video editing - some advice please!!
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2003, 10:18:50 AM »
?
 

Offline Pyromania

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Re: Video editing - some advice please!!
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2003, 10:24:14 AM »
Quote

mips_proc wrote:
well you obviousely have you're mind made up..premiere bieng 'crap' and vegas video 'lacking' *(because real pro's dont like the interface)...I'm not going to argue  with you about it anymore then I already have.

on another note... will your  PCI toaster work in AmigaOS4.0 on the AmigaOne?...



Try them if anyone can pull you away from your awesome Video Toaster [2] and you will see.

Not at first since Ami[2] will require a Mediator based Amiga 4000D or T with a Video Toaster 4000 card and a Flyer card. It could at some point in the future no longer require this as the software included with it matures. The initial release will focus on adding features to the Amiga Toaster that it does not have like Firewire and Componete in/Uncompressed recording.
 

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Re: Video editing - some advice please!!
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2003, 12:23:21 PM »
Unit21 the Draco is a nice system. While other company's boasted about vaporware Amiga clones like the BoXer, Macrosystems Germany delivered a fully functional Amiga OS clone with the Draco. If Amiga software ran from Workbench and did not need the custom chips chances were that it would run ok on Draco. Macrosystems delivered what others were not able to. I just wish they continued to make the Draco because it is a nice system.
 

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Re: Video editing - some advice please!!
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2003, 10:46:32 AM »
Siggy it sounds like you have the Amiga 2000 version of the Toaster without a Flyer card. That vs an Amiga 4000T with Video Toaster 4000 & Flyer are worlds apart. You don't need decks with the Flyer like you did with Toaster 2.1 or 3.1 software. Everything is NLE, if you have a MinDV cam you feed it direct into the Toaster w/Flyer, you don't even need a TBC. If you had a Flyer you would love it over Premire trust me. Also, on an Amiga 4000 the VT has many, many real-time color effects. A feature that is missing on Amiga 2000s. As far as After Effects goes it is cool. I like Combustion   more myself but I have seen a lot of good work done with After Effects. Adobe aquired the company and the product though, it was not a software effort that Adobe came up with the way Premire was. The production board and deck paradigm is not something you would be dealing with if you added a Flyer to your Toaster system.