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Author Topic: Quake II Update released  (Read 6480 times)

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Offline Fab

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Re: Quake II Update released
« on: May 22, 2010, 04:12:17 AM »
Quote from: Methuselas;560036
I didn't criticize anyone. I simply made a blatant observation. OS4, MorphOS and AROS (you'll find I'm one of those few that pay attention to them all) are in dire need of updated software. There's no Java. There's no Open Office. There's no OpenGL. There's no Flash Support.


Then you didn't pay attention enough. There is OpenGL (what do you think Quake3 is using?), and there's also Flash support (swfdec for MorphOS, which means it's as good/bad as on any other opensource platform not using adobe's official plugin).
 

Offline Fab

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Re: Quake II Update released
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2010, 06:02:14 AM »
Quote from: Methuselas;560142
First off, "Fab" maybe *YOU* should pay attention. See, since I'm apparently not allowed to have an opinion of my own, I don't remember asking you for yours? But this *IS* an open website and I'm actually one of the most open-minded and liberal people on here, so I'm gonna let you have your opinion.

I don't think i need your permission to answer to your observations.

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There's MINIGL, which is a trimmed down version of OpenGL, ie NOT FULLY WORKING OR SUPPORTED to the full extent of the CURRENT OpenGL. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Quake III requires FULL OpenGL? ;)

Also, I was under the impression that the only port of Quake III was to MorphOS, which makes you wonder how much better the graphics support of MorphOS is compared to OS4, but I'm not here to flame, unlike the rest of you. I'm here to make a point.

Quake 3 has been ported for both MorphOS and OS4. The GL support in MorphOS is more mature, more performant and in any case good enough for something like Quake 3 (but still it's "only" at OpenGL 1.5 level or so). But even MiniGL can deal with Quake 3, anyway.

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Why didn't the developer just port it to OS4 too? Didn't feel like it? Didn't want to? Didn't have the time? They use the same CPU for the most part. OS4 and MorphOS could have used the same API or been compatible in some way, but they didn't and still choose not to. There's not a single attempt to unify between the Red and Blue camps even in the name of software support. Didn't you know? It's a *WAR* (sarcasm, just to shut up the idiots)!! You can't like one, if you're in the camp of the other. I believe the proper meme for this is "EPIC FAIL".

Let's just ignore this part, since it's based on false assumptions.

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And Flash "support" is for MorphOS. Did you code the Flash plugin? If so, why isn't there one for OS4, Aros and Classic 3.9? Is it 'cos you (or the coder him/herself) didn't "feel" like it? They didn't want to? They didn't have the time? Well isn't this the pot calling the kettle black. Oh, I know, I know, "I have released the sources, port it yourself, if you want it for [insert Amiga Sub-OS of choice here]". Yes, because the Amiga scene is just oozing with developers and there's so many of them, that they've nothing to do, as everything the Amiga needs is currently being ported, coded and maintained or developed.

Yes, i coded the plugin, as well as the plugin support in the browser going with it (OWB). And like you pointed out, sources are indeed available for whoever would like to see this on 3.x, OS4 or AROS. But i don't see why i should feel bad because i haven't ported it to other platforms. Motivated developers can always adapt (or recompile) my sources and even get some help with that. If there's noone motivated for that, it just means these platforms are dead, or too proud to use evil "alien" code. And for instance, on OS4, they set up a bounty for Gnash more than 1 year ago, so it would be rather weird to release a concurrent solution and "ruin" the efforts of a bounty, anyway.

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I find it hilarious that from a single opinion, all you zealots from whatever camp you're in come running to the fray, as though you have something to say that is poignant, when most of it is simply an attempt at a quick jab before you bounce off to your rosy-colored world, where Amiga is the *KING*, there is no Apple or Microsoft and the world "may know".

That's what I love about this site so much. So many of you are completely delusional. Almost makes me miss Atheist a bit.

I wonder why you are so upset in your posts, really. My original answer was just a factual correction to some of your observations, and you jump on me like an atheist, labelling me as a zealot.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2010, 06:05:16 AM by Fab »
 

Offline Fab

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Re: Quake II Update released
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2010, 02:18:45 PM »
Quote from: Methuselas;560156
No, but you do need to be civil. See, I was civil in my first post. You "zealots" (since you seem to not like being called that) accused me of being negative, when there was nothing negative in my first post, at all.

My first post in that thread wasn't negative at all. That's not my fault if you decided to confuse me with someone else.

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Once again, we're back to sharing between the camps, something none of you seem willing to do. If MorphOS has a more "mature" (I'm not a coder, so once again, this is all speculation) OpenGL than OS4, why didn't your camp offer it up, to help merge the alternative Amiga Operating Systems together? Oh, 'cos you're in the Blue camp and they're the Red camp. It's impossible for you to work with one another.....

I don't really see why MorphOS team should give away its technology to a company that would use it to make money (the opposite applies too, of course). As for AROS, they already decided to go the MESA+Gallium3d way (with all its advantages and inconvenients), but there were exchanges between AROS and MorphOS (MorphOS used the initial work on intuition, dos and some C commands, and in return gave the fixes that were found during porting).
But I guess in your utopic world, IT companies just always share their technologies for the common good, riiight. :)

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This is a joke, right? Are you really *THAT* much of an elitist?? Yes, "motivated developers" can always adapt (or recompile) your sources and even get some help with that (sic), but if there's no one motivated for that, it means the platforms are dead or too proud to use evil, "alien" code, when in reality it really means that in your eyes, every Amiga Alternative is a "dead platform" *EXCEPT* for MorphOS. That simply is *NOT* the case and no matter how much you want to take the "blue pill", you can't deny it, as there is software development for every Amiga OS out there, but few, if any, are ever done to support them all.

But that's still the most sensible approach. I don't have any particular interest in OS4 or AROS, but i don't mind at all helping them for some ports. So I offered help for my MPlayer and MAME ports on AROS: Deadwood did the MPlayer port, and Masta1 the MAME port and it was just fine that way. It's much better when you have actually someone motivated for the platform doing the port, else you often just get half-assed port, without great support, like we can see with (commercial) projects like Pixel32 for MorphOS.


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I'm even going to push it a stretch further. Did you ever stop and think that maybe if you simply asked and said, "Hey, I coded the flash plugin for MorphOS, it's better than anything we have right now, so since there's a need for it on OS4, would anyone be willing to loan me an OS4 machine to port the plugin to OS4"? I bet you would be surprised at the answer.

But I have no interest in doing it. But if someone is, i can help him. Isn't that good enough? Besides, I don't ask for any donation money for my work (unlike many others), so i really don't accept such remarks.


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Who said I'm upset? I merely made a comment based on my opinion and the only thing following it, sans JJ's comments whom I agreed with, were wholly negative. You're a MorphOS developer and this was a news article on an OS4 port, so why do you care? In addition, why are you so upset with my rebuttals? Seems to go both ways, doesn't it, Sir? ;)

Your knee-jerk reaction to my first neutral comment certainly indicates you're upset. Don't blame me if i now react to your reaction. :)

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Finally, I never called you an Atheist. I made a reference to a former user on here *NAMED* Atheist. Fab, you joined *WAY* late to have had the pleasure of meeting him, but he was a zealot in the extreme. He was a negative influence on the Amiga Community and Amiga.org, having long since been banned from here.

I perfectly know who Atheist is, you probably just didn't get the funny part of the sentence.

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I want Aros and OS4 to have Ambient, which is such a gorgeous piece of kit. Seriously, I commend you guys on that. Every screenshot or video of MorphOS just makes me drool and feel bad on how drab OS4 and Aros look in comparison.

I don't think it would be that good that all the flavors share the same desktop. That's part of their identity.

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I want MorphOS, Aros and OS4 to use the same API (or at least be compatible in some way), so porting games to the Amiga flavors becomes a bit easier for all and *EVERYONE* gets to enjoy them.

But they have a large common API, the 3.x one, plus OpenGL, SDL, libc stuff and so on. The API are diverging for the extensions, but most of the time, they're hardly needed for game ports, anyway (or require little work to adapt).
« Last Edit: May 22, 2010, 02:27:45 PM by Fab »